Members nin8185 Posted July 28, 2015 Members Share Posted July 28, 2015 We are a loud Heavy Rock/Metal band and looking for a PA mainly for vocals at practice/small and inputs for recording. Most if not all small-medium sized gigs have their own PA's so would only be used for basement shows if needed. Will the Peavey Xr8300 (300w per speaker) be enough to carry us through? Currently Using a Roland KC550 Keyboard amp for Vocals/keys and it just not cutting it running both. Getting a good deal so just want to make sure this PA will fit our needs. Edit: 2 Peavey PR12 would be paired with the Mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 28, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sorry that would help... 2 Peavey PR12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 28, 2015 Members Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm going to make my comments based on assumptions but those assumptions are based on experience. To answer your basic question, yes that system would probably work fine for vocals only in a rehearsal or very small setting. However...... If you are as loud as many groups of this genre, loud stage volume frequently leads to feedback issues. Unless you can address this with proper mics, EQ and (hopefully) lower volumes, you're in for a lot of frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 29, 2015 Members Share Posted July 29, 2015 Define "good deal"...Free? I don't know, seems you could do much better....Powered speakers have more options to tweak the speakers to a loud monitor environment with less chance for feedback.......not that anyone is saying you play loud or anything Also pr 12's don't seem to tilt for monitor use? I'd rather have a one good monitor than two crappy ones......QSC, EV, Yamaha, JBL......all have great products for middle level equipment. But as a Tomm pointed out they will "work", but nothing worse than constant feed back issues due to lower grade speakers and your physical environment. For expand-ability I'd point you away from powered mixers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 29, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree with Tomm and nchangin, you can certainly do better in both speakers and their power, but it'll cost more. Worthwhile investment? That's yours to decide. As an FYI, the 8300's amps are 150 watts RMS into 8 ohms. The "300 watt" rating is Program Power into 4 ohms. The 4 ohm RMS output is 210 watts. Use this info for comparison with power amps, which are usually rated by their RMS output. I would recommend you get started with a small passive mixer and a 12" powered speaker. Something like the EV ZLX series is inexpensive, sounds good, and readily expanded. Note that if you decide to expand, the box mixers are very limiting and make it difficult to add monitors or subs...or more FOH speakers. It's far simpler to go with powered systems. And you can easily use just one speaker to start out, and add a second later as funds allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2015 Define "good deal"...Free? I don't know, seems you could do much better....Powered speakers have more options to tweak the speakers to a loud monitor environment with less chance for feedback.......not that anyone is saying you play loud or anything Also pr 12's don't seem to tilt for monitor use? I'd rather have a one good monitor than two crappy ones......QSC, EV, Yamaha, JBL......all have great products for middle level equipment. But as a Tomm pointed out they will "work", but nothing worse than constant feed back issues due to lower grade speakers and your physical environment. For expand-ability I'd point you away from powered mixers.... Friend is asking $650 (peavey XR8300, 2 x PR12, Stands). The PR12s slant when laid down on its side. Currently using the Roland KC-550 for Vocals/keys, We get some feedback only when mic is covered with hands to closely. The 8300 Feedback detection wouldn't solve this? Sounds like Powered Speakers would be a better option? We can live with the Roland KC550 for now if the 8300 isn't worth the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 29, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Hmm. That's not really a good deal, I typically start at 50% of retail price for anything used, especially speakers, as you don't really know how long they'll work. The XR8300 retails for $500, and the PR12 is $220. So half of $940 is $470. But either way, I'd rather see you put the money into a single powered speaker and a small passive mixer. I know it seems like you're getting less, but the powered speakers are a much better way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 29, 2015 Members Share Posted July 29, 2015 True, not a great buy at all, maybe he would accept an offer ? Regardless, one thing to be aware of is that active speakers are not feedback-proof either. Although I only own a couple of active units, I also see them as a good starting point for folks putting a system together for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 29, 2015 Members Share Posted July 29, 2015 BTW, mic balls should NEVER be covered with hands, "too closely" or otherwise. I see a lot of "metal bands" doing this because they think it looks cool. Fact of the matter is, they are turning their cardiod mic into an omnidirectional mic when they do that. The back of the mic is just as important as the front if you want to maintain your pickup pattern. The Feedback Location System in the 8300 is useless IMO. All it does is light up which of the EQ sliders has the feedback tone in it (provided it is pretty loud already). But the EQ in the 8300 is way too blunt an instrument to use for fixing feedback. It has only 7 channels. Even a 31 channel EQ is pretty blunt by todays standards. Cut too much signal and your mix sounds like crap. Start with a single powered 12" and a passive mixer. You will be spending your money more wisely. BTW if the keys player is the one buying the PA gear, he can sell that KC550 and use a powered speaker at gigs instead. A good powered speaker will sound way better than a Roland KC amp. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thanks for all the help! Definitely know the direction to go in now. Its my KC550 and will consider selling it to start up on a powered 12 and decent mixer. Going to be splitting the cost as it will be staying in my studio/possession. I'm fairly new to Live sound any particular brands/products noted for their craftsmanship/reliability? Lets Say 700$ Power-speaker $300 Mixer (Maximum). Would like to buy the mixer used most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 30, 2015 Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 QSC K12's add subs later, look at Allen and Heath for a mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 30, 2015 Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 There are lots of recommendations on this forum. I hear QSC makes amazing stuff. Yamaha DXR-series speakers also get good reviews have a 7-year warranty. I have Yorkville NX55Ps, I like them and come with a 2-year "even if you break it" warranty. EV ZLX series gets good reviews. JBL PRX612M, 712M. RCF ART 312A. A few more, too. Avoid Behringer and Alto for this application. Mixers - A&H are great. Also consider higher end Mackie, Soundcraft. The Behringer XR-series offers a lot of bang for the buck but is totally unproven (I wouldn't make them my only option). You will get more for your buck buying used, especially the mixer. Buy a brand that is readily available in your market. You will want more. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 30, 2015 Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thanks for all the help! Definitely know the direction to go in now. Its my KC550 and will consider selling it to start up on a powered 12 and decent mixer. Going to be splitting the cost as it will be staying in my studio/possession. I'm fairly new to Live sound any particular brands/products noted for their craftsmanship/reliability? Lets Say 700$ Power-speaker $300 Mixer (Maximum). Would like to buy the mixer used most likely. Ummm ZLX 12P are 399.00 retail, I found some for 299.00 online back in February and had my online retialer match the price cost was 600.00 for the pair no tax free shipping....But I don't consider this the best choice, the angle on the ZLX for monitor use is not standard or doesn't aim like it should.......or as other monitors do.... this is only suggested due to your budget...... 300.00 mixer....... Behringer Digital....http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-x-air-xr12-digital-rackmount-mixer?rNtt=x%20air&index=2 $400.00 more get's the X18 for more inputs.....remember most online retailers can negotiate 15 % off the top usually with the right sweet talking...... You will need a device (smartphone/tablet) to mix the mixer...... And I strongly advise against used unless you have a little more experience with this equip and know what your buying before you buy (seeing the equipment live) I've been burned multiple times, and I purchased a warranty so I did recoop my investment but not my time, did I say time? You lose time when **** breaks, time is money. No one wants to lose money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 30, 2015 Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 Regarding cupping the mic: The guy can't hear himself he's either trying to look cool cause he's a rookie or he can't hear himself so he's doing what ever he can to increase his volume just to hear himself. I've witnessed it with singers trying to sing with crappy monitors/mix in a basement, next to pipes and cement block...uber loud guitairs, ears ringing, yup "the good old days"...hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 30, 2015 Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ummm ZLX 12P are 399.00 retail, I found some for 299.00 online back in February and had my online retialer match the price cost was 600.00 for the pair no tax free shipping....But I don't consider this the best choice, the angle on the ZLX for monitor use is not standard or doesn't aim like it should.......or as other monitors do.... this is only suggested due to your budget...... 300.00 mixer....... Behringer Digital....http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-x-air-xr12-digital-rackmount-mixer?rNtt=x%20air&index=2 $400.00 more get's the X18 for more inputs.....remember most online retailers can negotiate 15 % off the top usually with the right sweet talking...... You will need a device (smartphone/tablet) to mix the mixer...... And I strongly advise against used unless you have a little more experience with this equip and know what your buying before you buy (seeing the equipment live) I've been burned multiple times, and I purchased a warranty so I did recoop my investment but not my time, did I say time? You lose time when **** breaks, time is money. No one wants to lose money. Depends where he shops for used gear, GC's 30 day return policy on used stuff is pretty safe. I would estimate that only about 10-15% of my (major) gear is new and I don't consider myself someone who truly knows what to check for problems. The key is to stick with Pro-level gear that's designed for extensive use and talk to the seller about it's history. Agedhorse sells all sorts of used gear that fits this description and his prices are very fair. With the swing towards digital gear by everyone who thinks they need it, great used analog stuff is abundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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