Possible 5 piece band in the making. Need help buying mixer.

[chord123]

I am a electric guitarist have been jamming and learning a few rock songs with John another electric guitar player. We are trying to start a band. We need a drummer,bass player and singer to complete the band. John is 58 years old and never had success starting a band We are both electric guitar players and pretty inexperienced when it comes to playing in bands. We play classic rock CCR,Stones etc.. We like the same songs both want to get out and play gigs both have daytime jobs. . John says a drummer out of high school is going audition for our us in early July. John never been a band. I just came from a band so I have 4 months experience with a rock band. Stonehenge my old band had an old school Yamaha mixer.for gigs. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171099763014?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. My question do we buy a analog or digital mixer ? What are the advantages having a digital mixer. What kind of effects should we look for in the mixer? Do we need just spring reverb.?Who makes good mixers? Can you point out a specific brand or model of mixer? What is the best way to test a mixer? Used or new? We kind of want start shopping for mixers and get a good used one. We hope to play smaller bars some day but we are long ways from that cause we don't have a bass player,singer or drummer yet. We decided we will play open mic nights soon. We want to take this band out of the garage and play in public. Eventually we will need monitors to and probably PA system. In what order do we purchase these items?

[Pro Sound Guy]

Please do tell more. ..............Budget?

[chord123]

I am not sure yet about budget.Can you give me some reccomendations in the following price ranges

 

Recommend some mixers in a budget price range $100-$250

Recommend some mixers in a expensive price range $250-$450.

 

Lets say we will spend up to$1000 on mixer pa speakers monitors. Where do you spend most of the money at?

[jesseweiss]

I'm confused, if you don't have speakers what do you need a mixer for?

 

A lot depends on how many instruments you plan on putting through the PA, what speakers you are thinking of getting, etc...

 

If you are just using the PA for vocals for practice right now, you don't need too much. If you think you will be putting more instruments through the mixer down the line you are better off getting more inputs now.

 

It also matters if you already have speakers, or what speakers you were thinking of getting, and whether you were going to get unpowered (passive) or powered (active) speakers.

 

Just and FYI, both price ranges you mentioned are relatively inexpensive for mixers.

 

If you are new to doing sound, then a digital mixer is probably not the way to go. They have a much higher learning curve, because they have so much flexibility, which also means they are easy to not use properly.

 

Realistically for $1000 for mixer, speakers, mics, cables, and stands you are on the low end. Having some experience with low end stuff (unfortunately) the Alto TS series are really solid inexpensive speakers. They are probably the best of the low end stuff. You can get 2 Alto TS112a (don't get the wireless version not worth it) for 400-500. If you are willing to go used, RCF 312a's are supposed to be excellent and can be found for $500 for a pair.

 

Get a $200-$300 mixer, Yamaha, Mackie, Behringer (Behringer are less expensive but get the job done), and then some decent mics (Shure SM58, Senheiser 835-935), stands, and cables and you should be right around your budget. This will give you a usable PA for simple gigs, practice, etc...

 

We've run a similar setup for years and been fine. Certainly you can spend a ton more, but you have to have the funds for that to make sense. If you give more info about what you are looking to do with your PA, it will help, but your budget is fairly limited if you are starting from scratch.

[Pro Sound Guy]

How about spend all the money you have on a four self powered loudspeakers and use the line out on the mixer you have to feed them. Do NOT use the speaker out of your mixer to feed powered loudspeakers. Use two powered loudspeakers for your monitors. Use two powered loudspeakers for your main speakers out front.

 

[chord123]

Don't need to buy anymore mics or mic cables .I already have the Shure 58 and Shure 57 and plenty of mic cables and a mic stands .Going use the PA just for vocals now at practice. Could I use my Korg 32 multitrack as a mixer for practice I have been using the Korg to make mulitrack recordings and mixdowns.It has 12 imputs and 32 channels. Would this be a ok use it as a subsitute for a mixer at practice? I also have a pair of KRK Rockit 5 nearfield monitors. They are not loud enough for vocals to be heard at practice. We are two guitar players playing thru 40 watt Fender Hot Rod deluxes so the vocals going need to be heard.

 

I was looking at the bare minimum just to get by at practice. All we would be doing is putting the vocals thru the PA system.So I guess we need some high powered active speakers. How about the Mackie series? Do we really need four speakers 2 monitors and 2 main speakers out front just for practice? Can we get by with two active speakers just for practice. How many watts for the out front speakers? How many watts for the monitors. Do we stick to one brand for all the speaker?.

[Pro Sound Guy]

If you just want some powered speakers to throw up on a poles then the Mackies would work if that fits your budget. The sky is the limit on powered loudspeakers. Make sure you use LINE OUT and not your main speaker outs on your Yamaha mixer. You dont want to smoke your new powered loudspeakers.

 

[jesseweiss]

You definitely do not need more than 2 speakers for practice. Monitors are only necessary if you are on a stage where the mains aren't facing you. At practice just face the speakers and you'll be fine.

 

In fact, you can probably get by with just 1 if it's just 2 guitarists. In terms of how much power, it really depends on how loud you are but unless you are really cranking it up I can't imagine needing a ton of power for practice.

 

What you do get with more $ is better quality sound. When you aren't pushing a speaker as much, because it has more power than you need, you'll get better quality sound.

 

If you were to spend $1,000 or less, I would spend most of the $ on speakers.Get something like a Yamaha MG10 (4 mic inputs) for $150 or a similar Behringer for half the price and put money into the speakers.

 

I just got some Mackie SRM550's and they are very nice. You could probably get by with the SRM450. I wouldn't get Thumps, as my experience is that "cheaper" brands actually have better speakers than the Thumps.

 

The new Yamaha DBR series and EV ZLX might be right up your alley as well. I got a quote for the ZLX 12p's for like $350 each, and they sound nice and clear. The DBR's are like $100 more each. The upside to these is you can certainly use them as mains for gigs in the future, especially if you are just running vocals through the PA. You could probably throw a light mix of guitars and drums in there as well, as we've done.

 

 

[chord123]

Pro Sound Guy. I do not have a Yamaha mixer to use. The singer owned the PA system and a Yamaha EM-100 II, 6 Channel Mixer, Power Amp, Spring Reverb & Eq, Vintage Unit. Ebay has one for sell for $600. Just wondering is this a good mixer for our band to buy. Is the price right? its from the early 1980's. They have been trying to sell it for months.

I was actually thinking of using my KORG's D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio and use the line out to connect to some active speakers. You know use the Korg 32 track recording studio as our mixer. Is this a good idea? Maybe we just need to buy mixer.

$100-$250 range reccomendations

$250-$500 range reccomendations

[wesg]

chord123, your best first purchase would be a GOOD powered speaker. These usually come with a super-small mixer that will let you plug one guitar and one microphone right into the speaker. Yamaha DXR12, Yorkville NX55P, JBL PRX612M, EV ZLX, etc.

 

Then get a small mixer. Something like the Behringer Xenyx 1204. You can put four mics on it, and they are $200 new.

 

Next buy a speaker pole. $50.

 

Now you have enough equipment for a rehearsal or a small gig. Point your guitar amps at the audience, put the speaker on a pole behind your head (make SURE the horn is above your head), and play. If you get feed back, turn down or move the mic further from the speaker.

 

Wes

[chord123]

I can get a RCF ART 312 A MK III Active Two-Way Speaker 312A MKIII MK3 PROAUDIOSTAR for $420 on ebay with free shipping. Customer return in MINT condition with all original packaging” I am thinking of pulling the trigger and buying it. Is the price right?

[chord123]

Used Behringer Xenyx 1204. currently bidding at $58 on Ebay.

[wesg]

Personally, I would pass on the used Behringer mixer. Current Behringer stuff is okay for the most part. Older Behringer stuff is not as good. Either way, mixers have knobs, sliders, and switches which all subject to physical wear and deterioration from a dirty environment. You're just not going to save enough money to avoid the aggravation. Plus the new stuff has a 3-year warranty if you register online within 90 days of purchase.

 

I have not heard those RCF ART 312As in person, but I hear good things about them on this forum. They are in the category of "good speaker" I was talking about. Warning: they will be expensive to ship. Try to buy local.

 

Wes

[jesseweiss]

A Guitar Center in Maryland has 2 RCF 312a's for 249 each. You could see if they could ship to your local store, plus you can buy the extended used warranty. 2 years is like $35 and worth it. I believe shipping is free or cheap when it's between stores.

 

I've bought from Proaudiostar online, stand up guys from Brooklyn. If it's on Ebay, contact them and ask for a better price. You might be able to save $50 or more, since they will always work with you. They are the one's that offered me the ZLX 12p for like $350 new with full warranty, so you might want to look into that. The advantage of the Yamaha DBR is that it has a 7 year warranty, so the question is whether the 7 year warrranty is worth $100. It probably is. I would call them and ask for speaker advice.

 

As I posted before and wesg agreed, 1 good speaker is enough. I also agree with wesg that no need to get a used Behringer mixer. They are cheap enough already that you might as well buy new. Unless you plan on recording from the mixer (just 2 channel stereo) skip the USB ones and you'll save some $. $99 should get you what you need.

 

With one speaker of the types mentioned and the mixer you'll be set. And then you can always get another speaker for a full PA for shows.

 

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

[chord123]

I pulled the trigger on a RCF 312a from Pro Audio on ebay for $420. Free shipping. I already ordered it before I saw your email jesseweiss so I did not have a chance to haggle over price,

I called the Guitar Center in Maryland they sold out the RCF 312a. They were kind of beat up.

 

They have the RCF 310a with ten inch speaker used for $249. Is this a good deal They make good monitors heavy bass. Thinking of buying a monitor even though don't need one at this time.

[jesseweiss]

Earlier before I got your message jessewiss. I pulled the trigger on a RCF 312a from Pro Audio on ebay for $420. Free shipping. I already ordered it before I saw your email jesseweiss so I did not have a chance to haggle over price' date=' [/quote']

 

Still a good price, so no worries. I'm guessing what you are getting is essentially brand new. The Mackie SRM550 I got from them for like 75% of new was still in the box, wrapped, etc... Looks like the box was opened and it was returned and resealed.

 

The RCF will do you will, so good choice. Now just get an inexpensive mixer and you'll be good to go. Our mixer for my band is just a 6 year old Behringer Eurorack 2442FX and it works just fine. Unless you need separate bus mixes, you could just get the Xenyx 1202FX for 80-100 new and you'll be off and running.

[chord123]

What do you think of the RCF 310a with ten inch speaker used for $249 as for monitor to go along with the RCF 312a FOH speaker. Should I buy the same brand of monitors another RCF. Make all the FOH speakers and monitors RCF Only complaint about the RCF 310a is the lack of ANY mixer or other type of input/output than XLR. Is this a bad thing? Guitar Center in maryland has one in great shape for $249.. Is this a good deal Would use this as a monitor. They said it has heavy bass. Thinking of buying this monitor even though don't need one at this time. Is this too good a deal to pass up? Or should I wait on this for some time.

[jesseweiss]

You definitely want to match your FOH speakers, but they don't have to match your monitors.

 

Do you need a monitor right now? If not, I would wait until you are actually playing gigs. That's the only reason to have monitors. For practice just face the speakers towards you, which helps with not having any feedback anyway.

[Tomm Williams]

I pulled the trigger on a RCF 312a from Pro Audio on ebay for $420. Free shipping. I already ordered it before I saw your email jesseweiss so I did not have a chance to haggle over price,

I called the Guitar Center in Maryland they sold out the RCF 312a. They were kind of beat up.

 

They have the RCF 310a with ten inch speaker used for $249. Is this a good deal They make good monitors heavy bass. Thinking of buying a monitor even though don't need one at this time.

 

 

Why buy a monitor you don't need when you're over half-way to a second 312a?

[OneEng]

The 312a is a fine speaker. It has a mic/line switch, so you can put it to "mic" and plug your microphone directly into it. This should get your vocals above the guitars IF (big "if") you play at reasonable volumes.

 

As an ex-owner of a HRD, I can tell you that it is a loud amp. Two of those on the stage could easily bury vocals even in systems with a very STRONG set of FOH speakers.

 

For a mixer, I would recommend the new Behringer XR12. It is digital, and as pointed out, there are lots of moving parts to it, but most of those moving parts you are likely to need.... especially the vocal efx (reverb and delay). The XR12 runs around $300, but I think you can get it for $250.00 if you ask around. You will also need a tablet (android or iPad) if you don't have one in order to use this mixer.

 

It only has 4 microphone inputs, but it has an additional eight 1/4" inputs. See the details here: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/Xr12.aspx/

 

You should download the free PC application so you can get a feel for how the mixer works .... this will also let you see if it is more than you can handle before it shows up on your doorstep.

[chord123]

I did change the pre qmp tube in my HRD and the clean channel has 20% less output. The other channel the dirty channel is on the HRD is still plenty loud. maybe I can change the pre-smp tube for that too.

 

I think a BEHRINGER Xenyx 802 might be a much better choice,than a BEHRINGER Xenyx 802FX it costs less.I know it has no effects, but you can link it to a better external effect module, and control it in the same way. Integrated effects rarely are good in cheap mixers

 

I don't need any USB on the mixer or I don't want it for recording purposes just to use it as a mixer for small venues.

[wesg]

You won't need a monitor if you are playing small venues. Just stick the speaker behind yourself a few feet and off to the side a bit. Then turn your guitar amps down until your vocal mix sounds nice where you're standing, and it will sound nice for the audience, too.

 

There are significant advantages to buying all one kind of speaker. Your next speaker purchase should be another RCF 312. That way, you will have two matched for FOH in medium-sized rooms. After that, buy a third to use as a monitor: it will double as a spare. That is exactly how I built my PA system.

 

OneEng makes a good point about the XR12 being a lot of bang for the buck. But I would not expect your Kindle to be able to run the mixing software. You want a newish iPad or Android tablet with a decent-sized screen.

 

The Xenyx 802 is not suitable for a band mixer, but I suppose it will be suitable for mixing two vocals into one speaker with no monitor. You will be buying another mixer real soon if you buy this one, though. It doesn't have a monitor send.

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking outboard effects will matter at this point. The built-in effects in any recent-production mixer will be fine.

 

Wes

[jesseweiss]

You are correct that you really don't need effects right now.

 

I would spend the extra $20 and get the 1202. You get two more xlr mix inputs which you will probably want if you get a full band together.

[jesseweiss]

I agree with wesg across the board.

 

Yes to same speakers, particularly for FOH. You won't need monitors until you are a full 5 piece band.

 

The 802 isn't worth the savings when you can spend a little more and get something with aux sends and more XLR inputs. I also think you might as well spend the $20 for onboard fx if you think you will use them at some point.

 

I'm not sure going digital is worth it right now, as there's a much bigger learning curve, adjustments are harder to make on the fly, and it's easier to screw things up.

[Shaster]

Don't get the 310, just wait until you can get another good deal on another 312. In the meantime you could spend the money on a decent small format mixer like the Allen & Heath Zed 10FX or get a mixer that would grow with your possible need for more channels, like a Soundcraft EFX8 or if needs be a Behringer with a suitable channel count (8 to 10) AND an internal power supply so you're not dealing with wall warts and wall wart failures. I don't normally suggest Behringer but if budget is the only consideration then the Behrs are certainly an option.

 

If you get a mixer with enough channels, aux sends and with effects, you'll only have to buy once - assuming it stays in good working order. There's a reason so many here have suggested buying with a warranty - stuff happens!

 

Re: monitors - I gig a fair bit in smaller bands, and unless it's a "pro" gig we don't use monitors, just the FOH slightly behind the singers, and toed in. This works if you are at reasonable levels - YMMV.