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How do we deal with cables?


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I was listening to an NPR story about the garment industry and how the race to the bottom has turned the industry upside down. The modern clothes wearing person owns 400% more clothes than 50 years ago, mostly because clothes are just far cheaper. That's off topic enough for now:

 

Cables: Everyone needs them. You built a PA system and then buy cables to hook it all up. Sound companies that have been around a while have cables as old as I, some still in use. And we may be carrying about the same amount of gear as 30yrs ago (are we?) but it seems like as our gear ages quicker (shorted life expectancy and usefulness) the cables to hook it up are still valuable when new but have no real value when the gear they were bought for has been depreciated to nothing.

 

I went to a musicians swap meet a few years ago. I brought older gear to sell, so did everyone else. But what struck me was the sheer amount of cable each person was trying to unload. Some more expensive than others ("I paid $100 each for these speakon cables 5 years ago!"). There were buckets of cable. All kinds.

 

Kinda sad really. The high demand for new and the non existent demand for slightly old. Just thinking out loud, I'll leave the floor open.

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I have also pondered the changes in sound system technology. Did the systems used in the 80's (let's say) sound good? Yes, they did. During those years there were hack systems also - as exists today. During those years did the rigs use efficient use of power... probably not, but they sounded good.

 

For my bigger outdoor events I subcontract a local sound provider that has been providing sound production since the early 80's. He has mixed Blood Sweat and Tears, James Taylor, etc. and is a wealth of knowledge. At my largest yearly gig (town fireworks) we deploy a "zone" of his gear (rack/stack) in addition to my gear. His "home built" long-throw cabs sound tremendous. He built them in the 80's. They are big, look used, but, they sound great. The rack he utilizes has 6 Crest amps (from the 90's). Heavy, but it all sounds good.

 

When was the Shure SM58 developed? They are still around...and people still buy them although there are many other that "are as good" in their price range.

 

I for one have respect for old (useful) gear. Aside from my Itech amps I've got a mix of passive cabs that I purchased used (mostly Yorkville TX) that were designed in the 90's and are still being manufactured today. Why, you ask? Because they are good. Yes, they are "old technology" but they sound good - period.

 

In my opinion society's quest for the latest/greatest affects all aspects of our society. I recently acquired a digital mixer but would prefer to reach for a "physical" EQ to notch something out rather than scroll to the appropriate layer to do so.

 

Give me an older system that works and I'm happy.

 

My TCW

 

Mike M

 

 

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I was listening to an NPR story about the garment industry and how the race to the bottom has turned the industry upside down. The modern clothes wearing person owns 400% more clothes than 50 years ago, mostly because clothes are just far cheaper. That's off topic enough for now:

 

Cables: Everyone needs them. You built a PA system and then buy cables to hook it all up. Sound companies that have been around a while have cables as old as I, some still in use. And we may be carrying about the same amount of gear as 30yrs ago (are we?) but it seems like as our gear ages quicker (shorted life expectancy and usefulness) the cables to hook it up are still valuable when new but have no real value when the gear they were bought for has been depreciated to nothing.

 

I went to a musicians swap meet a few years ago. I brought older gear to sell, so did everyone else. But what struck me was the sheer amount of cable each person was trying to unload. Some more expensive than others ("I paid $100 each for these speakon cables 5 years ago!"). There were buckets of cable. All kinds.

 

Kinda sad really. The high demand for new and the non existent demand for slightly old. Just thinking out loud, I'll leave the floor open.

 

If you're talking about custom wiring harnesses, that's kinda the nature of anything bespoke, be it cabling, houses, or fancy suits. You'll pay out the nose to get any of them custom made for your particular desires, but will take a bath on them when you want to resell them.

 

I've seen Economics defined as "the study of scarce resources which have alternate uses." The more alternate uses a particular resource has, the more demand there will be for that resource and thus, the higher the price it will command. Bespoke products have fewer alternate uses, so there's less demand for them.

 

-Dan.

 

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I love having lots of cables. I have bought almost all of them used but try to only buy top quality cables and connectors. I use passive speakers, active speakers, DMX gear, and use both snakes and wireless mixing setups. I have twice as much 4C 12ga speaker cable as I have ever needed but I like having the extra just in case. My collection of snakes include a 220' cat6 digital with siamese power on a reel, a 250' 24x8 reel , 2x 100' 16x4, a 100' 8x4, a 50' 8x4, a 25' 12x0, and a few fan to fan xlr and trs snakes in various lengths.

 

It is goofy I know but nothing says "pro audio" to me like a big whirlwind medusa snake with a shiny blue cable and black numbered XLR's! The shorter stage snakes really clean up a large stage when you have full drum mic'ing and lots of other inputs. Some items like XLR fan to fan snakes have almost never been used. But I still keep them because they occasionally come in handy. You can never have too many snakes! Even now that I am doing mostly wireless mixing I won't give them up.

 

Straight XLR and mixed TRS/XLR cables of all lengths come in handy for various situations. Sometimes you use a lot of snakes or have a small stage and only need short XLRs. Other times you don't want to use the snakes and a bunch of 30-50' xlr's are needed.

 

When you have lots of old cables and cord ends around you can make your own adpaters, turn arounds, etc. and add those to your collection. ​Lately I have been rolling my own siamese cables for active monitors and mains, cannibalizing old cords to make them without added cost. At this point I don't actively look for audio cables but might still buy something if it was an "upgrade" at a give away price.

 

Now power cables are a whole 'nother story. If you do lots of different types of gigs, especially outdoor festivals, it is nice to have an extensive collection of power cables. You seldom have an ideal power drop or close generator location so long 6/4 cable runs to the distro or multiple 100' extension cords can salvage an otherwise unworkable power situation. I have one event at a ballfield where the only practical deployment ends up being 6 sets of 150' runs of 10ga and 12ga to the announcer booth. I will still buy AC cables if they come along at a good price. Bring on the SOOW!

 

Why so many cables? It is great to have just the right cables you need for a given situation. It is all about streamlining setup time and, to a lesser extent, keeping a clean look. Of course to really save time and effort you have remember to leave the stuff you won't need at home!

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Pete: Your thread here I guess got my subconscious going. Yesterday I came up with a "duh... that's just too simple" sort of idea... and maybe it's not a new idea, but it's a new idea for me concerning cable management.

 

My ideal would be that as I'm hooking up the last connection, I'm doing so with the last cable left in the cable box. And all cables used were "most appropriate for the application". That's my pipe dream. The reality of the situation is I always haul 2 or 3 times as many cables to the gig as what I end up using. Not that I mind hauling the extra cables... I suspect the Sprinter van gets about the same mileage regardless, and I way rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it... it's the digging through the unused cables to come up with the proper cables to use that I'd like to improve upon. Our vanity band project's system is generally (almost always) set-up the same-same... so I think I can fine-tune the routinely used cabling situation.

 

So my "great idea", which I implemented at last evening's gig was that I brought an extra and empty cable trunk. I took my time matching up "just the right cord" to each hook-up application. Then, during tear-down, I put the cords and cables we actually used in the empty cable trunk. I'll keep bringing the big-full-over equipped cable trunk to future gigs... but hopefully I won't have to get into it much... it can stay in the Sprinter "up front". And hopefully with a little fine tuning... the last cable that comes out of the new cable trunk, will be the last cable needed for regular set-ups.

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When you know the band and know the venue that is a great approach. I do it with mics, stands, monitors, and AC cables as well. I regularly work with one 5 piece group that plays in a couple of lounge type settings where I only need 1x main, 3 monitors, 8 total mics, and two simple AC drops. All the cables, mics, iPad, and 2x drop boxes for the gig fit into one regular bin. I am using siamese cables for all powered speakers and that helps make this possible. So it really cuts down on loading and setup time.

 

I load a spare monitor and backup mixer in "front" of the cargo area as well as a bin with a few extra mics, xlrs, di's, a spare router and ipad , and a few ac cables "just in case". But that stuff doesn't come out of the van unless needed. This greatly reduces the amount of work I have to do and makes the gigs more enjoyable for me. It has gotten so streamlined I am happy to do these type shows on the cheaper side of the wage scale.

 

When you go into a less known environment or have multiple bands, etc. it is not so easy. You can apply the same strategy but generally have to bring a lot more stuff to make sure you are covered.

 

Unfortunately the regulars I work with don't seem to get this and still expect me to work for the same rate going into a new situation! That's on me though so I am taking an active role in re-educating them.

 

 

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Gonna start loading in, in a couple hours. Lots of people coming tonight.

 

I always have 4 cable trunks:

 

AC/Speakon

XLR-L/XLR-S

2 misc cable boxes

 

Always a good idea to have extra, and I use them as spacers for FOH to raise them up a foot or so.

 

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This is what I did last night. Fixed some iffy cables I had been throwing in a pile to the side here & there. Replaced any ends that weren't neutrik, with neutrik (obviously) a bit of identifying heat shrink. Good to go. Also did around 10 short cables as well.

 

 

 

11837A3E-32C7-49D2-875D-049D062635F4.jpg

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Cool - a cardioid monitor array!

 

Do those little bungees you have on the cables work pretty well? My original velcro ties are mostly wearing out now and I am looking for an alternative. String is too slow for me as I often tear down wearing gloves so can't tie small knots. Velcro has been mostly good but does stick to other pieces and can make a tangle of cables worse. Plus it really has not lasted that long. If the bungees can be bought cheaply in bulk I may try those.

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Cool - a cardioid monitor array!

 

 

 

Do those little bungees you have on the cables work pretty well? My original velcro ties are mostly wearing out now and I am looking for an alternative. String is too slow for me as I often tear down wearing gloves so can't tie small knots. Velcro has been mostly good but does stick to other pieces and can make a tangle of cables worse. Plus it really has not lasted that long. If the bungees can be bought cheaply in bulk I may try those.

 

Mike, I use both the little bungies (Planet Waves?) and Velcro ties. Yea, the Velcro does stick to itself (usually has to be unstuck before tying off the coil) but is more adjustable while the bungies are faster/more convenient but do stretch out over time. Even once stretched mine do their job but I'm just a hobbyist so YMMV.

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Cool - a cardioid monitor array!

 

 

 

Do those little bungees you have on the cables work pretty well? My original velcro ties are mostly wearing out now and I am looking for an alternative. String is too slow for me as I often tear down wearing gloves so can't tie small knots. Velcro has been mostly good but does stick to other pieces and can make a tangle of cables worse. Plus it really has not lasted that long. If the bungees can be bought cheaply in bulk I may try those.

 

 

 

I use that monitor as a centerfill. If people get right up to the stage, the PA misses them. Those little bungees work great. They are from Planet Waves. About a dollar each. Packs of 10. I hate velcro, and decided to try something different from trick line.

 

 

 

Search on Amazon.

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Part of this is a friend and I bought out a theaters old PA and some video. Now I've got 4 large tubs of xlr, AC, NL4 (2cond) and a boat load of composite and component video cable. Some of the video cable is high end, most not. With HDMI being the new default that means all the marantz and denon DVD players and cables are worthless. And the nice Denon cassette decks.

 

 

 

Got a nice JBL SRX 4732/4719 rig for sale now. And qsc PL4s cheap. And even cheaper will be cables. I just don't need that much 2cond cable! I bought a 100m roll of EWI 4cond a few years back and the idea was to phase out all or most 2cond, but the resale and my ambition to try and sell it is low. Not to be a Debbie downer, but blah blah blah.

 

 

 

of and I still have 2 beautiful xlr output panels I never even used I can't get rid of. I guess I'll use the xlr ends, trash the rest.

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I just run it off an aux. Mainly for vocals. Might put a touch of guitar in it depending on the band. When a gig is really crowded id get people saying "we can't hear the singer right up front

 

 

 

No kidding, you're standing right between the FOH speakers and right up even with them. So I use a YX12 which is what I use for monitors. That way I don't need to worry about a specific Center fill speaker. It works pretty good!

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Thanks - that makes a lot of sense. I've had the same issue a couple of times, I will normally toe-in the speakers to get better front coverage, but short/wide rooms could possibly go with a different approach.

 

I have NX55Ps, do the YX12 have the same shape cabinet? The NX55P has a position that is "flatter" than the wedge position. I'm not sure if that would be a good idea, or a bad idea, for a center fill. I suppose it depends on stage height for starters.

 

Wes

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Do those little bungees you have on the cables work pretty well? My original velcro ties are mostly wearing out now and I am looking for an alternative.
I use 6" ball bungees, cheap on fleaBay. They don't stay on the cables like the Planet Waves ones but also don't get in the way. I just toss them in a pile as I use the cables and then into a container for use at the end of the night. Velcro sucks and rope ties are slower than the ball bungees. I bought red ones so they don't get lost.
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A lot of the premium older gear is still making money and at this point the ROI is enormous.

 

However, junk is junk no matter how old or new.

This basically says it all.

 

When I used to own my own PA (as a small provider) people would always be ask and be amazed at how much things cost. $1200 for a power amp, $2200 for a mixer, $1200 for a speaker etc. The most amazing thing was that I had $10k worth of mic, speaker, power cabling and distro, about $2k worth of mic stands, and another maybe $4k worth of cases and trunks. What I didn't tell them was I bought all the stuff for dirt cheap from another provider that was going down thu.gif

 

I ended up unloading all that stuff separately for more than I paid for it, after it paid for itself.

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