Cable Management

[RoadRanger]

I've been a bit lazy about marking my cables recently - partially because I was using green electrical tape around the male connectors and that has the issue of coming loose after a while AND I've run into a band that also uses green tape . I'm switching back to what I used back in the 80's - Brady/Panduit wire markers towards the male end. Has anyone found something better that works easily on cables that are already built?

 

I was also using velcro cable ties and those are a PITA as they tangle and take a fair amount of time to straighten out and fasten correctly at load-out. The Planet Wave permanently attachable bungees are pretty cool (Jeff Grocki uses those) but a bit pricey - plus discontinued I think? I was also using short sections of sash cord that worked OK. Most recently I've changed to ball bungees that I find to be the fastest solution I've used , red so they don't get lost on-stage like black would :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370730750564

Those are just right for a 25' XLR that's been "arm wrapped" and bunched up to fit in a smallish duffle bag. I can fit about 20 in each of the duffles I use. They also work on the lighter gauge 25' speakons I have and also the 12x4 "firehose sized" ones I have if not bunched (left in a circle). Also extension cords.

 

I've standardized on all 25' cables (plus some 10's and 5's) because they seem to be about the longest that can be "arm wrapped" without damage" by the loud-out "volunteers" . I do have a bunch of 20 footers I'll either cut down to 10 footers for general use, cut up to "custom" lengths for rack usage, or sell/give away. 20 footers seem to always be a bit too short . I still have four 50 and one 100 foot XLR's - and four 50 foot speakons I'll cut down to 25's eventually. I don't see myself ever going away from my passive monitors and subs.

[dboomer]

Pros don't use Velcro for just that reason. They use a thick cotton string called "tie line" or "trick line". It's cheap too

[RoadRanger]

Pros don't use Velcro for just that reason. They use a thick cotton string called "tie line" or "trick line". It's cheap too

Yah that's basically what the sash cord was. Problem was I can't get "volunteers" to tie it correctly (square knot) - and the ball bungees are faster .

[dbMontana]

I use both the clamp-on bungee and Audiopile velcro without too much problem. Admittedly the bungees stretch out and a bit get loose after a while (but so far still work) and while the velcro adjusts to whatever length needed can certainly be a pain if you dont remember to tack them back onto themselves somewhat neatly when deploying. I help a guy during the summer that uses tie-lines on his many cables and that certainly works but does take a bit longer sometimes requiring pinning the coil between your knees to use both hands to tie.

 

"Arm wrap"? Really RR?

[StratGuy22]

I ordered a couple rolls of trick line. It works pretty good. I know what you mean about the sashes. I over/under all my cables, turning down any well intentioned help. I have 4 - 50' probably a couple dozen 25' and a bunch of 10 - 15'. Anything under 25' gets halved, halved again and into a knot. I have various standard trunks I use. They are actually mic cases that hold 24 mics. Pull out the foam and you are good to go. They basically each replace 2 "milk crates of shame" here's one opened up... That one is a spare box with some extras. 2 - 50' speakon, 2 - 25' speakon, 4 - 25' AC cables and a half dozen or so 15' AC.

[StratGuy22]

Velcro on all those, which I don't like. That's how I know they go back in the "extras" box

[RoadRanger]

"Arm wrap"? Really RR?

It comes down to that - or refusing help and doing it all myself. I chose to avoid the crabby old soundguy image and let folks help . As I said this requires me to keep the lengths down - and of course unplug all the cables early on in the load-out including where two are joined together unless I want to find them wrapped up as one .

[RoadRanger]

Velcro on all those' date=' which I don't like. That's how I know they go back in the "extras" box[/quote']Yah, my bag of 20 footers is all velcro still, partially for that very reason. I'm still space constrained enough that road cases aren't an option. I have a bunch of smallish duffle bags that are each labeled so it's pretty organized and IMO they look a whole lot better than milk crates. I have moved from my Scion Xa to a Dodge Grand Caravan but I still have one back seat in, now carry two pairs of subs, a spare RCF310A, and all eight of my monitors so I'm not much better off - except that I have that rear bench seat and the front passenger side.seat free now .

[agedhorse]

Volunteers don't coil my big cables, snakes and power distro are done by the pros only, all over and under.

[RoadRanger]

Volunteers don't coil my big cables' date=' snakes and power distro are done by the pros only, all over and under.[/quote']Yup, I coil the bigger cables properly myself. Hence my quest to minimize/eliminate the usage of snakes and the old 12/4 speakon cables . Most of my power cables are 14/3 x 25' (black) that I can coil up into a round compressor air hose bag. I can usually get the amp rack close to the power so rarely need to get out the one 12/3 x 100 I have or any of the orange cords.

[Unalaska]

Velcro doesn't bother me, for xlrs I use the cheap stuff that comes 50 to a roll. For heavier that gets bigger stuff. Cable trunks on wheels are the only way to go, each has a pull out shelf for xlrs and smaller stuff (low voltage), underneath is ac, nl4/2, stringer, snake etc...

[StratGuy22]

Time to lose the last bench, or buy a trailer. Don't buy a trailer as you will have lots of space and then you will want to fill that space

[mikekars]

Those 50 to a roll cheap velcro ties are good for a couple of years and then it seems they loose their ability to adhere well. Same thing with the green tape; looked good and worked well for a couple of years. After one or two gigs on a hot summer day they typically unravel leaving only a sticky memory.

 

The fold it over an tie it a loose overhand method is pretty quick but even harder to explain to volunteers. I work with one guy that used to do that every load out. But now he just sort of asks that each cable be mostly "together" prior to dumping it in the box, planning to go through all the cables the next day anyway. That does speed up load out but defers some of the work until tomorrow. I seem to have enough cables on even a medium size event to where I would cringe at having to go through all of them after each gig.

 

Velcro that sticks to other velcro, having to kneel down to "tie your shoes" with trick line, cable spools that are cool during setup be slow on load out, complicated fold overs that usually don't store that well and no one else understands... No free lunch here!

 

I use volunteers often and also don't want to be the burned out old sound guy riding herd on the help. So I show them once what I would prefer but don't get too anal about what I get. And I definitely get a variety of results! But the way I figure it is that I end doing a least half of them "correctly" myself and get some good ones from the help too. If one or two are a knotted mess I will fix it the next day but if a few cables are just sloppy, I will just try and pull them out first on the next gig and keep the "good" ones in reserve in the box until needed. That way you have a least a half way decent set of coiled cables most of the time without doing all the work yourself. I think one of the key things with helpers is to make sure everyone just puts their completed cables in a pile on the stage. Only when all cables are coiled (and accounted for) do you organize them into their various boxes.

 

Back Ron's posting - do you leave those bungees on the cable during the show or do they come off during deployment?

 

[StratGuy22]

Don't forget the beauty of drop snakes. I have an 8 channel that goes from the mixer to the drums. 6 channels for drums, then bass and guitar which are both stage left. Then I have a 6 Chanel that goes to the front corner of the stage. 4 vocals, Acoustic DI & Keys DI. Saves on longer runs to the mixer. If I'm providing sound and using my 24x8x100' snake, the drop snakes run from the stage box. I have designated drum XLR's. they are all 90 degree XLRF ends that go into the drum mics.

[RoadRanger]

But the way I figure it is that I end doing a least half of them "correctly" myself

I tend to not have time after getting the speakers' date=' mixer, rack, microphones, and stands packed up and loaded into the vehicle. As I alluded to first thing after powering down I disconnect all the cables at both ends (and in the middle if doubled) and grab the mics.

I think one of the key things with helpers is to make sure everyone just puts their completed cables in a pile on the stage. Only when all cables are coiled (and accounted for) do you organize them into their various boxes.

Absolutely! Although I don't count them up so tend to lose one now and again - hence my sub-question about marking them. I have five sheets of Brady "5" labels coming from flraBay for $4 shipped, hopefully those will be as durable as I remember from the bad old days .

Back Ron's posting - do you leave those bungees on the cable during the show or do they come off during deployment?

They come off and get tossed into an extra-small duffle labeled "TIES" as each cable is removed from it's duffle . I generally try to "borrow" a couple venue tables (if I don't have my 4 footer set up) to put my cable bags on during load-in&out to avoid extra bending over as my back isn't quite what it used to be. Snake wrangling was the worst on my back...

 

Speaking of tables I carry a four foot folding table - even in my Scion Xa - but the smaller bars often don't have room for that so today's mission is to pick up a couple wooden TV trays at Wally World (<$10 each). I have one I use for my laptop at rehearsals (for charts and so I can make notes about structure and endings) - hard to do on the iPad I use for performances). It got "borrowed" for a gig I played last Saturday and worked great for that carpy PV mixer I ranted about a couple weeks ago here .

[StratGuy22]

Heat shrink. I'm slowly adding blue heatshrink to all my cables, and all my short DMX cables have red heatshrink on the ends. Then there's no question. "Yeah, all mine have the blue heatshrink" be sure to do the heatshrink at the male end.

[wesg]

Have you found heat-shrink that will shrink enough to go on like that without taking your cables apart?

[RoadRanger]

^ What he asked ?

[StratGuy22]

No, I think most of it is 2:1 so it involves thanking it apart. That's why it's a slow process. I'll do it when I repair any cables, make new ones or have some time to take them apart

[RoadRanger]

Right now I have ~50 cables I need to mark/re-mark so taking them apart isn't an option . Most of my power cords have molded ends so REALLY not an option there.

[onelife]

I don't do any really big production stuff so I am able to wrap my all cables myself and put them in individual freezer bags. They can then be tossed into a bin where they stay apart from each other and are easily identifiable through the transparent bags.

 

It's easy to quickly search through the bin to find something specific without causing any tangles and the single bin makes for easy transport.

 

Another advantage of the bags is that one dirty/sticky cable doesn't make the other ones sticky which is nice when I need something from the bin for studio or rehearsal use.

[Shaster]

Velcro works for me. I was never a fan of tie line, and dumped the idea when my cat was in his shoelace eating phase.

 

I use the velcro to colour code my cables, either by function or length - usually function. XLR's are red, speakers are yellow, AC is green, 50' XLR and snakes are black, odd cables are orange, and cables I use for small and/or second jobs are kept separately and have blue velcro. I'm small time so I'm only dealing with thirty plus 25' XLR's, ten 15's and a half dozen 50's. Matched by a corresponding amount of TRS, AC, speaker and so on.

 

I do a fair amount of gigs where there are multiple owners of PA equipment (cross rentals, clubs w/FOH and so on). Putting my initials on the velcro, has more than paid off the initial (no pun...) cost. Of course if I had the expensive logo shrink wrapped on the cable, I guess I wouldn't need velcro - dream on.

[RoadRanger]

Velcro works for me. I was never a fan of tie line' date=' and dumped the idea when my cat was in his shoelace eating phase.[/quote']If he'd croaked you coulda switched to catgut

I use the velcro to colour code my cables, either by function or length - usually function.

"Function" is obvious enough IMO - and "length" is what I'm trying to eliminate or at least make obvious - just having XLR 25's and 10's should do it for me. Sucks to have to replace all the 20's I still had but as I said they seem to always be a couple feet short of what I need anyways . Those were mostly MF $5 "disposables" anyways. As far as initials on the Velcro, how visible is that from a distance when you're watching the "talent" coiling up cords and stuffing them in THEIR bags ?

[jeff grocki]

Come on Ron you can do it. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PGXKCS/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1414799594&sr=1&keywords=Planet+waves they hold up well come sample them anytime :-)

[Dogoth]

Yah that's basically what the sash cord was. Problem was I can't get "volunteers" to tie it correctly (square knot) - and the ball bungees are faster .

 

Square knot? I use what I think is called a "clove hitch" to secure the trick line in place near the male XLR end. This allows it to slide a little if you need to center it on your loop. THEN I use a bow tie (just like your shoes) to tie the loop together which makes it quick to unfasten. True the hitch sometimes comes lose and I lose one occasionally (Like Dboomer says "it's cheap").

 

Agreed Velcro is a pain. It also sticks to carpets if you're working in a meeting room or on a carpeted deck.