Members flanc Posted September 1, 2014 Members Share Posted September 1, 2014 I just got an email with a youtube link from Presonus. Their new mixers seem Behringer Rack X32-esque with a focus on the UC control surface. I guess I'd be nervous with only a digital control surface. I'm curious to see how these are reviewed and where they set the price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted September 1, 2014 Members Share Posted September 1, 2014 Wow, I guess that's what the R&D dept has been working on lately! Very cool setup. Workflow is everything so if it's easy then it should be a hit. Aaaand all my analog boards are now worth even less. Digital too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 1, 2014 Members Share Posted September 1, 2014 Nice. Glad I didn't upgrade to the 32AI yet. This has me really interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 1, 2014 Members Share Posted September 1, 2014 In for a penny, in for a pound! All in on the tablet surface it appears. I am wondering what price point this will appear at though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 1, 2014 Members Share Posted September 1, 2014 MSRP $1875 & $2749 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 US MAP prices are $1999.95 for the RM32AI and $1399.95 for the RM16AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Close but not quite there yet. This gets them out from having motorized faders but is not what I'd look for. A Desk control surface only with all the preamps on stage would be the ticket. Maybe a few in/outs at the desk but for the most part just a control surface with motorized faders. This would keep the cost down yet give you a better hands on feel. With the price of larger touch screens coming down maybe some day. But for now the cost of a large touch screen and the on stage preamps would be quite a bit above a Soundcraft expression 3 or even a X32. These of course come with the preamps at the desk at current to get the aprox price point. Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Carpal finger syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Close but not quite there yet. This gets them out from having motorized faders but is not what I'd look for. A Desk control surface only with all the preamps on stage would be the ticket. Maybe a few in/outs at the desk but for the most part just a control surface with motorized faders. This would keep the cost down yet give you a better hands on feel. With the price of larger touch screens coming down maybe some day. But for now the cost of a large touch screen and the on stage preamps would be quite a bit above a Soundcraft expression 3 or even a X32. These of course come with the preamps at the desk at current to get the aprox price point. Dookietwo My thoughts as well. The MAP on the 16 channel ($1400.00) lines up close to the X32 Rack ($1200.00). Presonus does have a software support system nearly as good as the X32 (with the notable exception of Android support that the X32 enjoys through a 3rd party application). There are those that would pay the additional $200.00 gladly simply to avoid Behringer. The X32 Rack does enjoy a simple physical UI (which I do use from time to time), but in general, the new Presonus 16 channel looks to be a decent competitor on the surface. The real differentiation in this class of mixer is going to be the tablet UI. It will be interesting to see how the UI wars iron out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Does it have sidechain EQ on the comps? For me that would be a deal breaker Vs X32 series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voicemaster Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 About time someone makes a digital mixer with windows support. Using surface pro 3 for mixing will be awesome or use a lenovo 19 inch table desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted September 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't see direct outs either. I use the direct outs on my SL16.4.2 (db25 break-out cable) when I play places with house sound. That lets me control the monitors and give them a pre-fat channel send for every channel; they can mix FOH how they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 I applaud the iteresting innovation of large touch screen but agree that having 32 preamps in the same box as the mixing surface falls short of where things I think are headed with preamps and signal processing on stage and a portable cat5 or wireless mixing surface placed wherever is convenient. Nice to see things progressing but, as others have noted, this also makes the SL16.0.2 I'm trying to sell worth less and less as each day passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Great IEM rig, keeps the size and weight down. Can the 16 output be anything or does it have to be an aux bus? The one reason I really dig the yamaha boards is the adat outputs can be anything. The price point is right. I remember paying around 2k for the gl2400 in 06. 24ch 6 aux and good eq. The x32 is about the same price now. Fwiw I still use my GL, people like it. But the lx7 I have is a harder sell. To me they are basically the same, but it's about user interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted September 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 A walk through of the product from a developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 From the walkthrough, it looks like a nice piece of software. The existing Presonus app was pretty good. It looks like they have upped their game on the new one. I would point out that they are incorrect in their assertion that ALL of the existing software on the market is "an add on" with only "partial control". I can assure you that my X32 Rack would be useless if this were the case. I also didn't hear any word on an off line editor.... which I find to be very useful on the X32. It also looked like the outputs were not as flexible as in the X32 and Expression Si (more along the line of the Qu). Having said all that, I thought the software was really well laid out. I would like to see color coding for groups like I can do on the X32 apps and scribble strips. I find this very useful. I think this will be a compelling product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 It's getting easier and easier to market products with no control surface feel at all, no touch/position feedback, nothing to keep fingers from slipping or erratic control of tightly spaced soft controls. Why, because there are fewer and fewer folks who have mixed on quality pro level hardware and thus appreciate the feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 It's getting easier and easier to market products with no control surface feel at all' date=' no touch/position feedback, nothing to keep fingers from slipping or erratic control of tightly spaced soft controls. Why, because there are fewer and fewer folks who have mixed on quality pro level hardware and thus appreciate the feel.[/quote'] You know there are plenty of "folks who have mixed on quality pro level hardware and thus appreciate the feel" who prefer the advantages of a control surface. It is not a technology geared only towards people who know less than you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 It's getting easier and easier to market products with no control surface feel at all' date=' no touch/position feedback, nothing to keep fingers from slipping or erratic control of tightly spaced soft controls. Why, because there are fewer and fewer folks who have mixed on quality pro level hardware and thus appreciate the feel.[/quote'] Likely true and I'll always defer to your and others extensive experience on all things pro audio. However, I know that two of my customers would not even let you set up a traditional FOH position in their venue as it would require running the snake through the restaurant and the mix position would take away seating from paying customers (of course, to be honest, the pay is so minimal I doubt you'd be the least bit interested anyway). That said, these (cover) bands are really quite good, draw enthusiastic crowds, and greatly appreciate my iPad services -- not to mention that self mixing IEMs is also quickly becoming the norm in these parts. For hobbyists like ourselves these rapidly evolving digital consoles are a godsend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 Mechanical control surfaces are very expensive to manufacture and iPads are so ubiquitous as to be free. Maybe haptic response is only valued by those that have been at it for a long time. And maybe if you've never experienced it you won't miss it. So those just starting out will reap the benefits and reduced costs of newer technologies. I believe that in the not too distant future you won't even be using your fingers to control things ... Think Google glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 Mechanical control surfaces are very expensive to manufacture and iPads are so ubiquitous as to be free. Maybe haptic response is only valued by those that have been at it for a long time. And maybe if you've never experienced it you won't miss it. So those just starting out will reap the benefits and reduced costs of newer technologies. I believe that in the not too distant future you won't even be using your fingers to control things ... Think Google glasses. Don, just to be clear, I personally would strongly prefer physical faders -- the things my fingers are almost constantly resting on and adjusting (often imperceptibly) -- and have even posted my pipe-dream wish for a laptop-like wireless console surface with a motorized fader bank (instead of keyboard) below a high-res touch screen (detachable so I could still walk the venue). While I appreciate haptic control (I made my living with my hands for many years in a previous life) the data visualization provided by a graphical display is to me a no-brainer improvement over squinting at rows and rows of knobs some of which are at knee level. Please include the ability to talk-back and solo a channel remotely and keep it under $2k including stage boxes of course ! Likely coming anytime soon? I seriously doubt it but that's what pipe dreams are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 I don't see direct outs either. I use the direct outs on my SL16.4.2 (db25 break-out cable) when I play places with house sound. That lets me control the monitors and give them a pre-fat channel send for every channel; they can mix FOH how they want. Most digital mixers don't have direct outs on every channel, that's a very unusual feature of the Studiolive desks. I don't know of any other digital mixer that has dedicated direct outs. Typically you'd use a splitter snake to split FOH and monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 4, 2014 Members Share Posted September 4, 2014 I saw the DB25's on the back in the video and heard the guy say that they were the same direct outs as on the SL series. As for iPad mixing, I think that for bar band usage, it is more frequently than not a positive thing as Dave points out since it is easier to setup, takes no room in the bar, and eliminates trip hazards. For most large festival gigs and B band concerts (and certainly A band concerts), I can see the physical interface being a permanent fixture for some time to come. The thing is that if you look at the number of units that an iPad interface is good for compared to that of higher end physical surfaces, there are hundreds of times more small operations than big ones (my guess). I think there is always going to be room for a good physical mixer in the higher end market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 4, 2014 Members Share Posted September 4, 2014 Carefull with that word "always". We could see a time very soon when the idea of a mechanical slider or a physical interface of any kind is considered quaint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 4, 2014 Members Share Posted September 4, 2014 My comments have nothing to fo with knowing more or less than anybody else. It has to do with the fact that physical fingers controlling physical controls feels more natural and I'd more precise/repeatable, I understand that I represent the higher level of user, and while some engineers that come through the venue may use an iPad during setup, not a single one has ever used one to mix the show. There is always a console (except for one guy who brought in a SAC system and even he used fader banks) be it digital or analog. Realize that there are multiple markets out there, with different preferences. There is a good horse analogy here... Lower level riders always seem to be looking for new products (or self help training programs) that promise to fix problems that they didn't even know they have. These folks spend hours practicing bad technique because they don't have the experience to know what good technique or feel is all about. You can't miss the quality feel if you don't know what it feels like. As a professional horseman, I have many years of experience riding a lot of different top quality horses. When somebody who is inexperienced starts to tell me how great their "nag of the day" is, my frame of reference is orders of magnitude higher than theirs because they have never experienced real quality feel. If you've never had good steak, hamburger tastes pretty darn good... (I also wish folks wouldn't mis-quote my comments) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.