Members dboomer Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Rather than hijack another thread I'm starting a new one for discussion. Last evening I replaced the power cord on a radio power supply for a neighbor farmer... their new puppy had chewed-up the original power cord. The quote from "the area radio shop" to replace the power cord was $140... or buy a new power supply off their shelf for $165. The radio shop was really pushing the customer to "upgrade" to the new power supply (based on the shop's repair quote it seems apparent to me the shop really didn't want to replace the power cord). It took me 8 minutes to change out the power cord... the replacement cord I used was out of my saved pile of surplus IEEE cables. I also used maybe a penny's worth of solder. It was a super straight-forward job. Even at $100/hr. shop rate and buying a replacement cord, I'd think a repair quote of $20 - $30 would have been more in-line. Admittedly the old power supply is seemingly approx. 8 1/2 years old... and was a bit dusty... but it works FINE (and is built for the ages). I suppose a new power supply might be more efficient... but we're talking somewhere around 150 watts here... and the radio & power supply are only on for 10 - 12 hours a day for 2 - 3 months a year (during spring work and harvest), and at 6 cents a KWH... I seriously doubt the farmer would ever see black ink on the "savings" a new power supply might offer. I dunno... It seems like the new way to "fix stuff" is to huck the old one in a dumpster, grab a new one off the shelf, rip open it's packaging, plug it in... "there... fixed!" It's an unfortunately new normal I think. Mark - to your post, one other thing to consider is that shops will often replace entire assembles to cover their own ass. Your example seems straightforward enough, but I've seen cases where a simple repair was made and then some other problem popped up down the line (like maybe the actual power supply quits 6 weeks later) and the customer thinks he got ripped off for the first repair. Part of this problem is that customers usually have very little idea of what is actually the problem. If they did know more they would have been able to fix it themselves (which maybe is another topic). When you work in manufacturing you see hundreds and hundreds of problems. You also don't see the thousands and thousands of users that never have a problem. You don't know how many times someone will get all upset saying "my speaker is broken". I'll ask how they know it's the speakers and they'll tell me "because there's no sound coming out". Well that doesn't take into account that it could be anything in the entire chain that is the problem if that's all you have to go on. My other favorite is that when something goes wrong (if it actually does go wrong ... another story too) ... "well, it's a firmware bug". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 If the technician really knows what they are doing, it's straight forward. If not, it's a total crapshoot. Just fixed a Crown D-150A power amp for a customer that was deemed unrepairable by other techs. The customer has more ofthese and it matches up in an older install rack and they didn't have the depth to install a modern amp chassis. Problem was simple, straight ahead, took 45 minutes from start to finsid including performance tests and cost the customer a grand total of $80.00 and he had it back in a couple of days. This is how service should be handled IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 28, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 If the technician really knows what they are doing' date=' it's straight forward. .[/quote'] We'll there's your first problem In today's world too many are simply trained to fix the problem by board swapping. That's not always a bad thing in the bigger scheme, but it does allow for a few times that repairs could have been done more efficiently by someone that has experience. eBack in the days when I owned music stores, I tested a potential new repair shop (after ours had closed down) by submitting a mixer for repair that had no real problem and cut the leads from 3 transistors. I got it back from the shop saying there was no problem ... go figure. You also have to count all the times you only charged a customer a token amount when in fact you spent hours and hours just because you felt you were too dumb and should have been able to fix it in 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Of course I come from a background of having managed a service shop while going to school full time earning my EE degree. Incidently, this was the same university and same service shop that Nelson Pass did exactly the same thing a few years earlier. Learning how to effectively troubleshoot and repair efficiently ment that I could hold a "full time job" (meaning that I always finished the month in the top 2 or 3 techs out of 20) while only working 15 hours a week. Since I got paid piecework, it didn't matter to the company how long it took me, they won as did I. Now forward 35 years and I still use those troubleshooting skills every day in my engineering work becaue I have to hand-hold some techs through a repair on the phone... sometimes not believing what I am hearing come out of their mouths. Having the troubleshooting skills and knowing the service industry helps me with my current day job too, I design new products knowing what's likely to be looking at it down the road and write service manuals that have the best chance of being understood by the least common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanCostello Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Of course I come from a background of having managed a service shop while going to school full time earning my EE degree. Incidently, this was the same university and same service shop that Nelson Pass did exactly the same thing a few years earlier. Learning how to effectively troubleshoot and repair efficiently ment that I could hold a "full time job" (meaning that I always finished the month in the top 2 or 3 techs out of 20) while only working 15 hours a week. Since I got paid piecework, it didn't matter to the company how long it took me, they won as did I. Now forward 35 years and I still use those troubleshooting skills every day in my engineering work becaue I have to hand-hold some techs through a repair on the phone... sometimes not believing what I am hearing come out of their mouths. Having the troubleshooting skills and knowing the service industry helps me with my current day job too, I design new products knowing what's likely to be looking at it down the road and write service manuals that have the best chance of being understood by the least common denominator. Half the time, I'd settle for a manual written by a native english speaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted August 29, 2014 Members Share Posted August 29, 2014 I can't think of any possible reason ever to replace anything at the module level in a piece of electronic equipment for a dog-chewed power cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarrx Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 Greetings, I'm new to this site. I have been searching for assistance in locating the screen grid resistors on a Seymour Duncan 60. I cannot locate any form of documentation that would point this out. I am experiencing a crackling noise and have changed tubes, cleaned pots, etc. An acquaintance on Facebook suggested replacing the screen grid resistors. Any assistance would be deeply appreciated. If I can find my way back here, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted September 2, 2014 Members Share Posted September 2, 2014 This is not really the right forum....but, ah, what do they say on them? Do you have a schematic diagram? I take it you are working on some kind of tube amp? Back on topic (sorta), troubleshooting skills are invaluable and seemingly hard to come by. I have made better guesses with limited knowledge than trained technicians or tradespeople in a variety of fields over the years because I have a good troubleshooting brain, whereas many folks just ... don't. Which reminds me, I need to get under my truck and troubleshoot this transmission leak. I'm getting sick of paying people who can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 Back on topic (sorta), troubleshooting skills are invaluable and seemingly hard to come by. I have made better guesses with limited knowledge than trained technicians or tradespeople in a variety of fields over the years because I have a good troubleshooting brain, whereas many folks just ... don't. Which reminds me, I need to get under my truck and troubleshoot this transmission leak. I'm getting sick of paying people who can't. Possibly to the point of this thread: Some-odd number of years ago I gave a used Astrovan to an acquaintance's son who was headed off to college and "needed" a vehicle to go to college and haul around his bass guitar stuff. A year or so after making the gift, the Astrovan puked it's tranny fluid... and found it's way back to my shop for "help". I pulled the tranny out and discovered that the seal for the torque converter was dislodged from it's seating. I installed a new seal and reinstalled the transmission. All was "fine" for about 100 miles, and then the van puked it's tranny fluid again. And there it was again, at my shop marking it's spot and dysfunctional. Ok... at that point it seemed apparent that the blown torque converter seal was the symptom of a deeper problem. I called around to area tranny shops... one after the other quoted crazy money prices to "fix the problem".... involving replacing the torque converter and pump, and, and, and... basically gut the transmission to the shell and replace everything... for about $2K. Finally I got hooked up with a tranny shop that knew their stuff and said: "Oh... well yea! That's a such and such GM transmission, and the problem is a worn something or another which needs replaced with a new and better doo-dad which they had on-hand... bring it up and we'll fix you up." The fix it bill was approx. $100 and they fixed it while I cooled my heels for an hour or so. Last I heard that Astrovan is still motoring down the highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2014 Members Share Posted September 3, 2014 Greetings' date=' I'm new to this site. I have been searching for assistance in locating the screen grid resistors on a Seymour Duncan 60. I cannot locate any form of documentation that would point this out. I am experiencing a crackling noise and have changed tubes, cleaned pots, etc. An acquaintance on Facebook suggested replacing the screen grid resistors. Any assistance would be deeply appreciated. If I can find my way back here, that is.[/quote'] Why would you think it's screen resistors? Troubleshooting help received on the internet by non-professionals (there are a few pros here) is generally worth about what it cost you... Find yourself a good repair shop, should be a straight forward repair if you haven't ruined things cleaning the pots (a definate possibility). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 8, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Rather than hijack another thread I'm starting a new one for discussion. It's an unfortunately new normal I think. Mark - to your post, one other thing to consider is that shops will often replace entire assembles to cover their own ass. Your example seems straightforward enough, but I've seen cases where a simple repair was made and then some other problem popped up down the line (like maybe the actual power supply quits 6 weeks later) and the customer thinks he got ripped off for the first repair. Part of this problem is that customers usually have very little idea of what is actually the problem. If they did know more they would have been able to fix it themselves (which maybe is another topic). When you work in manufacturing you see hundreds and hundreds of problems. You also don't see the thousands and thousands of users that never have a problem. You don't know how many times someone will get all upset saying "my speaker is broken". I'll ask how they know it's the speakers and they'll tell me "because there's no sound coming out". Well that doesn't take into account that it could be anything in the entire chain that is the problem if that's all you have to go on. My other favorite is that when something goes wrong (if it actually does go wrong ... another story too) ... "well, it's a firmware bug". I think both points are true: that toss and re-buy is well accepted by the majority of the public, and that shops do indeed have to cover their butts for repairs to old equipment because the owner has no clue that things can fail after a repair, or worse yet knows darn well it happens but takes advantage of the opportunity to play dumb in order to get something for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted September 8, 2014 Members Share Posted September 8, 2014 that toss and re-buy is well accepted by the majority of the public, Yea... I suppose. Another reality check for me was yesterday afternoon on the way to band practice, I stopped by an auto parts store for a set of replacement wiper blades for my Sprinter van. I intended to buy a two-pack of "refill" blades. Come to find out my Sprinter has two sizes of blades... 21" and 24". Ok... I'll buy a two-pack of 21" and a two-pack of 24"... so I'll have replacements in a couple years when I need to change them again. Wrong... the parts store doesn't stock refill blades at like $8 per two-pack anymore... they only stock single packs of complete blade assemblies at $15 - $20 per (or more $$ for the "fancy" ones). I asked what's up with that? The salesman explained "nobody" wants the refill blades anymore... too "difficult" to change or something... and in-fact the parts house salesman oftentimes end-up changing the customer's wiper blades 'cause". "oh". So I walked out of the store having spent approx. $30 (with tax) for two wiper blade assemblies rather than <$10 for a pair of refills... for something that does the exact same job. I dunno... I guess it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted September 8, 2014 Members Share Posted September 8, 2014 Yea... I suppose. Another reality check for me was yesterday afternoon on the way to band practice, I stopped by an auto parts store for a set of replacement wiper blades for my Sprinter van. I intended to buy a two-pack of "refill" blades. Come to find out my Sprinter has two sizes of blades... 21" and 24". Ok... I'll buy a two-pack of 21" and a two-pack of 24"... so I'll have replacements in a couple years when I need to change them again. Wrong... the parts store doesn't stock refill blades at like $8 per two-pack anymore... they only stock single packs of complete blade assemblies at $15 - $20 per (or more $$ for the "fancy" ones). I asked what's up with that? The salesman explained "nobody" wants the refill blades anymore... too "difficult" to change or something... and in-fact the parts house salesman oftentimes end-up changing the customer's wiper blades 'cause". "oh". So I walked out of the store having spent approx. $30 (with tax) for two wiper blade assemblies rather than <$10 for a pair of refills... for something that does the exact same job. I dunno... I guess it is what it is. That's where something like Amazon Prime is handy. Huge selection and shipped to your door in 2 days. The local "any store USA" is going to stock only what sells. No sense stocking blade refills if they'll just on the shelf for months, or someone will just as easily buy the higher priced full assembly. Brick and mortar for me has become: 1 - Food 2 - Clothing 3 - Something I can't, or don't want to, wait 2 days to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted September 8, 2014 Members Share Posted September 8, 2014 Why would you think it's screen resistors? Troubleshooting help received on the internet by non-professionals (there are a few pros here) is generally worth about what it cost you... Find yourself a good repair shop, should be a straight forward repair if you haven't ruined things cleaning the pots (a definate possibility). And there should be no reason anybody who should be futzing around in there should have trouble locating the screen resistor. They're on whatever trace/lug/whatever goes to the screen pin of the tube. That's not something that requires documentation (aside basic tube spec) to physically locate regardless of the make/model of amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted September 8, 2014 Members Share Posted September 8, 2014 I buy blade refills for my vehicles at the dealership. The autoparts stores have no interest in carrying the refills, there is no money to be made there. Too many parts to stock, small markup, high cost of support, low customer satistfaction. I fix a fair amount of my own stuff. I'm happy when I'm only ten times slower than a real repair shop. This goes for cars, bikes, small engines, tube amps and non-SMD solid-state audio electronics. That said, I'm over 40 now, and have started to pay pros more and more. I would rather play music for 10 hours than save the money to buy 1 hour of a technician's time. Still getting stuck doing construction around the house, though. I'm only 5 times slower at that. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 8, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Yea... I suppose. Another reality check for me was yesterday afternoon on the way to band practice, I stopped by an auto parts store for a set of replacement wiper blades for my Sprinter van. I intended to buy a two-pack of "refill" blades. Come to find out my Sprinter has two sizes of blades... 21" and 24". Ok... I'll buy a two-pack of 21" and a two-pack of 24"... so I'll have replacements in a couple years when I need to change them again. Wrong... the parts store doesn't stock refill blades at like $8 per two-pack anymore... they only stock single packs of complete blade assemblies at $15 - $20 per (or more $$ for the "fancy" ones). I asked what's up with that? The salesman explained "nobody" wants the refill blades anymore... too "difficult" to change or something... and in-fact the parts house salesman oftentimes end-up changing the customer's wiper blades 'cause". "oh". So I walked out of the store having spent approx. $30 (with tax) for two wiper blade assemblies rather than I dunno... I guess it is what it is. The comment in bold really got me. Case in point: my girlfriend had a 2009 Pontiac G6. One day she detours into Pep Boys and says she needs new wiper blades. Okay. We go in and buy what's available (and the blades are also grossly different lengths) and I proceed to install them. Or at least attempt to do so. Now, my first career was as an auto tech. Got a degree in automotive technology, ASE certification, and countless training class certs from Peugeot and Volvo over the years. But none of that prepared me for the fresh hell that was a Bosch wiper blade. The package had about 25 parts not including the wiper blade. Hmm. I remember Volvo's using Bosch blades as factory equipment. But not these...Volvo used a nice hook-end arm and the blade had a simple plastic thingy that snapped into the hook easy-peasy. The package also had instructions in a neatly folded sheet that opened out to about 5 square feet of print. There were screws, washers, clips and inexplicable bits of plastic. I was supposed to use some of this stuff on the Pontiac, but the tome of instruction did not say which. I was just supposed to know which. I didn't. So I cobbled together the closest thing to what was on the car. Wrong. I tried another variation. Wrong. Then a third. Bingo! Now all I had to do was repeat the process on the other blade, praying that it was identical. It WAS!!! Forty or so minutes later we were well-prepared for whatever southeast Pennsylvania weather could throw at us. I guess this is why we have other devices that save us time. So we have time to install new wiper blades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 8, 2014 Members Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ahhh, the B-18 and B-20 engines, a work of elegant simplicty and robust engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 9, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Ahhh' date=' the B-18 and B-20 engines, a work of elegant simplicty and robust engineering. [/quote'] The B18 and B21 (as well as following B230's) were definitely stout motors. I saw plenty that were driven overheated for miles and miles with no permanent damage. Overheating is worse than no oil, and usually will result in total loss. And in all the years I worked with Volvo, we rarely ever rebuilt a B-series even with several hundred thousand miles. Now move to the V6 "PRV" engines that were the collaboration of and shared among Volvo, Peugeot, and Renault (and were used by Maserati and Delorean) and it's a completely different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 I guess this is why we have other devices that save us time. Like computers and smart phones? Although I will admit that battery powered drills, skilsaws, sawsalls, and lawnmowers with 60" decks are seemingly a time saver. So we have time to install new wiper blades. I'll suggest it's a matter of which came first? The chicken or the egg. Answer: It was a package deal at the time... both came along at the same time. Did unfixable stuff/ "no user serviceable parts inside" stickers come first or did "what's a screwdriver?" come first. I'll suggest it's a package deal that came along at the same time: Why build it to be serviced if it likely won't be serviced? Back in my auto mechanic days, it was common that I got the ole deer in the headlights stare when I was explaining "the reason for engine oil"... and explaining the seeming reason why their ride needed serious fixing with 50K, 80K, 100K+? miles on the last oil drop poured into the engine of their vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 10, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Like computers and smart phones? Although I will admit that battery powered drills, skilsaws, sawsalls, and lawnmowers with 60" decks are seemingly a time saver. I'll suggest it's a matter of which came first? The chicken or the egg. Answer: It was a package deal at the time... both came along at the same time. Did unfixable stuff/ "no user serviceable parts inside" stickers come first or did "what's a screwdriver?" come first. I'll suggest it's a package deal that came along at the same time: Why build it to be serviced if it likely won't be serviced? Back in my auto mechanic days, it was common that I got the ole deer in the headlights stare when I was explaining "the reason for engine oil"... and explaining the seeming reason why their ride needed serious fixing with 50K, 80K, 100K+? miles on the last oil drop poured into the engine of their vehicle. All very true, Mark. I too remember having to dumb down my explanations just as much to men as to women, as both were, despite having advanced degrees and elevated positions, incapable of reasoning and understanding of anything mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted September 14, 2014 Members Share Posted September 14, 2014 I too remember having to dumb down my explanations just as much to men as to women, as both were, despite having advanced degrees and elevated positions, incapable of reasoning and understanding of anything mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical. Isn't it amazing. But those same people could manage & finance technicians quite readily - just ask them (sarcasm inside :-). I know this for a fact because I work for a bunch of them. My arrogant boss made one of the most profound statements I've heard in a long time: "I know it works that way because I paid for it." He was wrong :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 14, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 I never cease to be amazed by people who seriously believe that because they want it to be so, and perhaps paid, or ordered, it to be so, that it is so. I suspect the population of this sort will rise significantly as the "you can be anything you want" generation continue to progress to adult age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 14, 2014 Members Share Posted September 14, 2014 I never cease to be amazed by people who seriously believe that because they want it to be so' date=' and perhaps paid, or ordered, it to be so, that it is so. I suspect the population of this sort will rise significantly as the "you can be anything you want" generation continue to progress to adult age.[/quote'] Oh how I agree with this statement, It goes with the entitlement generation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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