Members race81 Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 I am installing a compressor/gate in my kick channel. Im assuming I can use just the insert from each channel of the compressor to the insert of the mixwiz channel? if so do I just use a TRS patch cord, or is something better. Or is the insert a bad idea and using the xlr's a better idea? I would like to use the insert, but want to do whats best, or if it even matters.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 Here's a suggestion... read the manuals to determine HOW a compressor's signal flow works. It will become obvious at that point why it's done the way it is done, and why using the XLR in and out is a poor choice. Also, most compressors are not protected from phantom power applied to their inputs so that's another reason not to use the XLR connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 The manual is two pages.....it does not go into detail on specifics. It has a wiring diagram in the rear page, but I am not an electrical engineer. It is a DBX 266xs.....the manual is really primitive. To put it short...I have read all 2-4 pages of the manual and its very vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 I am installing a compressor/gate in my kick channel. Im assuming I can use just the insert from each channel of the compressor to the insert of the mixwiz channel? if so do I just use a TRS patch cord, or is something better. Or is the insert a bad idea and using the xlr's a better idea? I would like to use the insert, but want to do whats best, or if it even matters.?? You need to get a TRS to two TS cable(s). The tip is generally the send from the insert on the kick channel, the sleeve is the return. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/MTIS/YIN/YIN_cutsheet.shtml How to setup and properly run the comp is a whole other topic. Less is more and sometimes nothing is better than using a piece of gear if you're uncertain how.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 thank you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 11, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Race, go out to dbx's website. They've got a white paper (which used to be included with the manual) on compression that's a great primer on the subject. ftp://ftp.dbxpro.com/pub/pdfs/whitepapers/compression%20101.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 Thank you Craig....that article did not come with my new units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 Read the mixer's manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 Keep in mind that tip is send on some mixers and ring is send on others. Example: Ring is send on the Soundcraft Deltas I use. Heed the advice given to read your manuals and look over block diagrams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 12, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Had a chance to find the 266xs manual. It's not primitive, seems to meet the need. That plus the comp 101 doc should be sufficient to sort out the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 12, 2014 Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 Maybe this is a good time to sit down and start learning how your stuff really works rather than complaining that the manuals are primtive. The wiring diagram in the DBX manual contains all the necessary information, as does the information contained within the mixer's manual. Without learning how this stuff works, it will be difficult to come up with reasonable and timely solutions when you need them most. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 I have read the manual twice Aged........what I think and correct me if Im wrong, it seems you have forgotten that you may have been my shoes...maybe many years ago, but yeah you were there once. I do not do this for a living and when I get into things, its a learning process. I dont have the experience as you and many others on this forum, but I do ask for help nicely. My main concern was hooking up to the mixwiz.....I ididnt know if I use the insert cable, xlr's...both at the same time, only the xlr's...and the manual says nothing about that they way I read it....the manual is written from a more experienced view than I am at.......so it looks good to you, but kinda looks like jibberish to me. Its kinda like me handing a flowchart for a ax4n ford transaxle to someone.....its like butter to me, others not so much. anyhoo, thanks for everyones help.....ive been reading and the more i go over it, its helping. And aged I do value your opinion as well as everyone elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted August 12, 2014 Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 good articles:http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996...mpression.htmlhttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/Taming-Your-Audio-Signal.jsp I'd find a helpful audio engineer to help work with the compressor & MixWiz. A lot of the youtube videos are bad, dry, or unboxings.. But, I'd watch a bunch and some will sink in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 12, 2014 Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 WZ-2 and WZ-3 manual: Page 13, under "Insert" shows the cable you need (with picture) and discusses using with line level compressors. Yes, we all started out at the beginning, we all had the opportunity to read the manuals and learn the basics. With that done, many (not all) of the questions about basic hookup becams sefl-answered. Perhaps, it's not time to start using a compressor? Conceptually, operating a compressor and avoiding some of the serious pitfalls is more difficult to grasp than hooking it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 have not had a chance to reference my mixwiz manual yet, and thanks for pointing that out. Im adding the compressor to our bands system as It was suggested by a friend thats been in the biz for a long time......he mentioned the kick could benefit from it. Being I am the drummer, I want the best sound we can get. We are also looking for a full time guy to monitor everything for us at gigs, as I know all gigs are not the same. Being I am the owner of all said gear, I believe its my responsibility to get things up and running, and hopefully find able hands to adjust and monitor as we hit the road. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 Perhaps, it's not time to start using a compressor? Conceptually, operating a compressor and avoiding some of the serious pitfalls is more difficult to grasp than hooking it up. This. You really need to find a way to work with it in theory before trying to use it practice. It is never a matter of sticking it in and putting in some preset parameters and getting a good sound. There are far too many variables. First thing before opening the box is defining what you're expecting it to do for your sound. Second is making sure you have the right tool for that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 As mentioned you want an insert cable without XLR's. Perhaps at this stage in the game, I would look to your playing, your kick, your kick tuning, your mic, your mic placement, your channel EQ, your graphic EQ, your subs, and your sub placement before hooking up a compressor. As noted here before, compressors can create more problems than they solve, if you don't know what you are doing and/or are so busy playing you can't monitor them. As an example, you might get an okay sound during sound check, and then start pounding the kick and squashing all the dynamics, if you can't keep an eye on what's up. So the question is, how does your kick sound now? Does it need containing, or controlling. Is it fat enough, and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have heard way too many mixes ruined by compression, especially now that digital boards allow compressors and gates and fx in places no real seasoned engineer would ever consider putting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have heard way too many mixes ruined by compression, especially now that digital boards allow compressors and gates and fx in places no real seasoned engineer would ever consider putting them. This is sooooo true. Funny story; Our local high-school bought a 24ch Mackie board a while back, and it was bought mainly for the on-board (one-knob?) compressors. Well, some of the teachers play in a rock-band, and they decided to put on a "show" with the new board. The house is packed,,700 or so,,,, nice theatre-type venue with great lighting, acoustic-treatment,,,,the works. The band gets introduced before coming out from behind the curtain,,,, the crowd roars(mostly students),,, the band takes the stage like gang-busters,,,,the lead guitarist/vocalist strikes the rock-star pose, they hit the first power-chord, and it sounds killer. The vocals??? Well, that's a different story. They sounded ummmmm "compressed", and it all fell flat. Bloody awful might be too kind.. Frankly, I was embarrassed for the sound crew, and for the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 Those who make fools of themselves because they don't understand their tools (mixer, compressor, instrument, whatever) deserve exactly what they get. It takes a lot of work to become proficient at any of this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ive read multiple places that compression on too many things is a bad thing, just as you all are saying. As I was reading my mixwiz manual and the dbx 266xs manual last night I noticed that the tip on the 266 acts as a return and the ring a send......the mixwiz manual says the exact opposite, tip is a send and the ring is a return. Is that normal or is that a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 13, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 have not had a chance to reference my mixwiz manual yet, and thanks for pointing that out. Im adding the compressor to our bands system as It was suggested by a friend thats been in the biz for a long time......he mentioned the kick could benefit from it. Being I am the drummer, I want the best sound we can get. We are also looking for a full time guy to monitor everything for us at gigs, as I know all gigs are not the same. Being I am the owner of all said gear, I believe its my responsibility to get things up and running, and hopefully find able hands to adjust and monitor as we hit the road. thanks again. Forgive me if I'm thinking of the wrong thread, but didn't you mention this (that compression was suggested by a friend) in a thread last week asking for suggestions for a compressor? And didn't I suggest you ask the friend why he thinks you need compression? I understand that you have a new tool and want to use it. I've got a rather extensive shop full of tools, some new, some new to me, some old, that don't get used until there's a specific need for them. This is exactly the same situation. It's definitely good to learn HOW to use compression, but I can't emphasize the importance of learning WHEN and WHY you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 13, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have read the manual twice Aged........what I think and correct me if Im wrong, it seems you have forgotten that you may have been my shoes...maybe many years ago, but yeah you were there once. I do not do this for a living and when I get into things, its a learning process. I dont have the experience as you and many others on this forum, but I do ask for help nicely. My main concern was hooking up to the mixwiz.....I ididnt know if I use the insert cable, xlr's...both at the same time, only the xlr's...and the manual says nothing about that they way I read it....the manual is written from a more experienced view than I am at.......so it looks good to you, but kinda looks like jibberish to me. Its kinda like me handing a flowchart for a ax4n ford transaxle to someone.....its like butter to me, others not so much. anyhoo, thanks for everyones help.....ive been reading and the more i go over it, its helping. And aged I do value your opinion as well as everyone else's.[/QUOTE] A message for newcomers (not necessarily race81): if someone who knows something seems to be a bit cranky in their second or third reply, it's probably because they've already explained it the first or second reply and feel as if you didn't read it. If someone suggests reading the manual and it isn't helping, explain why. Maybe you don't know how to read a block diagram. Maybe you don't understand some of the wiring or hookup concepts. Explain that...and we can then assist in that before moving forward to what you're trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 yes..It was recommended by a trusted friend in the business. A gentleman that I respect his opinion. He thought that the kick would benefit by a compressor to fatten the sound up a bit. Its only to be used on a kick..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 13, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Have you talked with other drummers who could listen and recommend ways to do this acoustically? Keep in mind that a compressed signal is indeed "fatter", in that it's much more prone to feed back. So you get a fatter sound that you can't raise in the mix enough to hear well. Vicious cycle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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