Members wesg Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 I want to give the wife a nice listening experience in the back yard for our anniversary this year. I'm sick of buying $50 speakers from Princess Auto that rust out after a few months and eventually fail. I'm also wanting to install more than a couple of speakers -- three to start, and eventually 6 or more. The listening experience I'm after is like a restaurant patio - clear, not loud, don't need a lot of bass response. It would be nice to have multiple zones, and be able to add speakers ad-hoc/easily. This is why I was thinking about 70V systems. Is there anything about installing one of these that isn't obvious? The topology seems very straightforward, basically the same as analog telephones. Most of the wire runs will be under vinyl siding, but I'll be burying cable for about 30 feet between the house and the gazebo. Any hard requirements there? I was planning to use 24 awg quad as I have a ton of it, and trying to source some direct-burial quad for underground. From one of the 70V wiring charts I read (belden.com), it looks like I can use doubled up quad pairs for about 400 feet with only 10% power transmission loss....my longest run will be around 100ft. That's another advantage to 70V systems, I guess -- wire diameters can be much smaller for the same run. I'm currently looking at a Yorkville CA1/70 amplifier and Colliseum-series loudspeakers, probably C110s or C120s to start anyhow. I like Yorkville because of the dealer network, my proximity to the factory (110 miles) and the warranty (unconditional two years). These are "weather resistant", I plan to hang them under overhangs where I can. Anybody know this product line? http://www.yorkville.com/installation/coliseum_amps/product/ca1/ http://www.yorkville.com/installation/coliseum_mini/product/c110/ http://www.yorkville.com/installation/coliseum_mini/product/c120/ http://www.yorkville.com/installation/coliseum_mini/product/c130/ Any advice would be appreciated. I would prefer to avoid as many pitfalls as possible. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 I personally like the Niles Rock Speakers and they come with a lifetime warranty. Otherwise, you seem to have your ducks lined up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 I don't see any problems in general. I use a minimum or 18 gauge on commercial installations for mechanical reasons though, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted July 8, 2014 Members Share Posted July 8, 2014 I want to give the wife a nice listening experience in the back yard for our anniversary this year. I'm sick of buying $50 speakers from Princess Auto that rust out after a few months and eventually fail. I'm also wanting to install more than a couple of speakers -- three to start, and eventually 6 or more. Wes A wise man told me "Never buy your wife a gift with a cord on it." Men like power tools, women like dinner, jewelery ETC. It has worked for me. If I want to get her a new mixer or vacuum I just do it but not as a gift YWMV Your wife may vary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 9, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I use a minimum or 18 gauge on commercial installations for mechanical reasons though, That was what stood out to me as well. You may consider using low voltage lighting cord for the buried parts...the insulation jacket is durable and relatively water-resistant, and the cable is readily available as well as inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 Thanks for the feedback, guys. It looks like I am going to buy one CA1 amplifier and three C120 speakers to start. I selected the C120 because it is the Colliseum-series Yorkville seems to tout most highly with regard to weather resistance. They also have 1/4" phone plugs if I read the spec sheet right, which means they'll be slightly easier to bring in for the winter. Andy - your point is a good one, I had forgotten that one failure mode I had with previous speakers was actually mechanical. The wires broke a couple of times where they get pinched into those little black/red connectors. Craig, that's a good suggestion for a source of inexpensive direct-burial cable. Thank you! fdew - that's actually excellent advice, and generally a rule around our place. That said, she /really/ wants a backyard speaker system but would never let me spend this much money on her if it wasn't an early anniversary gift. "Buy once, cry once" is not in her vocabulary. My secret plan is to get her something nice for the real day, too. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted July 11, 2014 Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 My personal preference for simple residential is to run stereo zones using auto-former volume controls in each zone. Stereo because I set it up each zone where I'm most likely to be in the sweet spot and anybody outside of that zone isn't likely to know or care and because the equipment is generally less expensive than dedicated constant voltage equipment. I have many installs that use decent outdoor speakers and/or in-ceiling (installed in the soffit) speakers with poly cones and butyl surrounds that are still going strong decades later, even in a fairly harsh environment. In any case, which ever solution you go with, I'd highly recommend installing volume controls for each zone. The amp you referenced has on/off switches, but the sound under a patio will generally need to be nowhere as loud as speakers out in an open area. You can install individual volume controls (in weather proof boxes if needed) at each zone or a unit that has several volume controls in it, either 70v or 8 ohm stereo. Just another 2 cents worth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted August 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2014 Trevcda - thanks for mentioning those. I always wondered how those worked. Knowing the keyword "autoformer" made it easy to find out! The speakers I selected have different taps on the transfomers for 10/20/30W... it's my understanding that these can be used as crude volume controls. If not, I'll see how things sound and investigate autoformers. So, I ordered three Yorkville C120s and the CA1 amp, and picked them up this morning. Plan is to eventually have six of them on the go. Unfortunately they sent me the 8 ohm version... I will use two of them over the long weekend and swap them next week. Understable, but the store is over a hundred miles from my house, Grr. I started burying cable this evening. I have a ~100' run to the gazebo. Using stranded 14awg outdoor lighting cable. Craig, that was an excellent suggestion. It cost about 40 cents a foot, was easy to buy, and is approved for direct burial. Basically, it's zip cord with a better jacket. The maximum voltage rating surprised me, 150V UL and 30V CUL. We must have different low voltage rules up here, maybe to do with the lack of a ground conductor in the cable. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 3, 2014 Members Share Posted August 3, 2014 You have a lot of different rules, some of which come from the protectionist nature of "the crown". That's why NAFTA doesn't work as well for us as it does for you guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted August 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 I got all the wire run yesterday, boy what a lot of work. Buried some, put some under siding, ran some through the gazebo frame, went through the walls all the way to the living room.....200' of wire altogether and you can't see any of it from the listening position. I also ran some extra CAT5 while I was fishing. I wound up doing the 100' run to the gazebo with 12awg by accident..I picked the wrong package up at the store. That's fine, but getting it into the connector was a bit of a challenge. I used Amphenol right-angle connectors to clear the mounting brackets. They also look pretty weatherproof and should be durable for an installation situation. I used commodity spade connectors at the amp. Not super happy with these. I need a better crimp tool. I also installed two of the 8 ohm C120s until I can return them for the 70V models; the CA1 has a 4 ohm tap. I have to say, I am extremely impressed with the sound out of these things; my expectations were pretty low given that they are unprocessed ported 2-ways with 5.25" plastic drivers in plastic enclosures...but they sound good at moderate listening volume, more than good enough for the task at hand. Actually, they sound better than the Behringer B205D mic stand powered monitor if that means anything to you. I hope the 70V model does not sound substantially different from the 8 ohm model. The only difference, IIUC, is the transformer and level knob. Oh, and my way of determining max input for these is to put on music, crank it up until the loud end sounds bad, and turn it back down a smidge. One thing that surprised me was the coverage I got out of these. At the same "near" volume (to my ear) they cover an area at least four times as large. With two speakers I am nicely covering about 2000 sq ft. Adding the third speaker should bump that up another 20% and give better highs on the upper deck where it will be mounted. The wife was happy, too. We sat in the hot tub last night, drank red wine and listened to The Wall. Her idea. The last set of speakers was hard to hear over the tub noise, these were crystal clear and very easy to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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