Members Ambugaton Posted June 27, 2014 Members Share Posted June 27, 2014 So, after a lot of reading and a lot of comparing price points, needs, and complexity of several items I have set up my first PA. For small - medium bars/clubs and occasional festivals/casinos. Using a Soundcraft EFX12, DBX231 EQ, going to EV ELX tops/subs, yamaha club 12's for monitors, and QSC GX5 and GX7 powering everything. I am very pleased with everything and will test it all out tomorrow night, but I feel the itch... my wife is getting a little angry already... but what additions would you make for my application? I don't think I need too much as far as DSP but I am just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted June 27, 2014 Members Share Posted June 27, 2014 Additions? Maybe an off site storage facility so your wife doesn't know how much stuff you have Failing that, maybe a bookeeping program that can prove to your wife you're making money from the gear. Failing that, why not add some time to really getting to know your rig, and digging deep into optimizing what you have. If you really get to know your PA, the next possible purchase might become readily apparent. FWIW, I always tell my wife (usually beforehand) that I need a new piece of gear to get "X" job(s). Having to justify things to her, actually makes me justify it to myself. Kind of like going to a bank with a business idea. When they turn the business plan down, one becomes aware of the true risks, as opposed to the rosy picture that one has painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 With your system bars and clubs okFestivals not really. You need a lot more rig for festivals.How many tops. How many subs?Outside is a true test for any loudspeaker system.You may have nice low end on a system in a club butwhen you go outside everything changes. (no boundaries).Investment would be a minimum of 16 channels and a minimumof two monitor sends with four monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 Lights. You need lights. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 Don't buy anything else until you can use your current set up to it's full capability. Then you'll have a better understanding of WHY you're buying the next thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JV90 Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 That's right, first try to get all the things working, then get some cases, bags to protect the investment that you already have made, get some carts to load and unload (I can't imagine how I did before getting the karma carts??? Weird) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 My thought is that you don't have enough ESP. (Or don't really know what ESP is and why it helps when set up correctly.) I'm running three DriveRack units. Primary use it to get the system frequency response FLAT. Amps are fairly flat EQ. Speakers rarely are. (For that matter, mic's aren't very flat either.) The secondary use is anti-feedback. There are 12 filters that can be set as live or fixed frequency. (Per unit.) Oh yea, it can also be used as an electronic crossover. (PX model, subs/mains only. PA model Subs/Mids/Highs.) There are a few other items built into them, but I don't use anything else. At 60+ my hearing isn't really good enough to set a system totally up by ear. Pretty much anyone over 40 will be carrying some hearing damage and have similar problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 Are your ELX the powered versions with internal processing? Otherwise, how are you crossing between subs and tops. I do not think DSP (not ESP) is the answer myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 I must not be getting enough sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 Are your ELX the powered versions with internal processing? Otherwise' date=' how are you crossing between subs and tops. I do not think DSP (not ESP) is the answer myself.[/quote'] Probably the crossover built into the amp (100 Hz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 28, 2014 Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 I do not think DSP (not ESP) is the answer myself. With sufficient ESP he would already know the answer to his question. So quite obviously that's on the list of deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ambugaton Posted June 28, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2014 Hahaha. Yeah the GX series has built in crossovers. Also, I don't have to explain the investment return thing to the wife... she is the lead singer in the band so she will learn first hand why its necessary to put some money into this. I think getting to know my equipment is great advice, and I think the driverack system might be a little over kill for my needs right now. Plus i have heard that a lot of people just end up using it as a monitor eq or something. Does anyone have any guidance on properly "ringing" out a system or if it is even necessary? I think I have seen people poke fun at both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 29, 2014 Members Share Posted June 29, 2014 At this point, you should concentrate on getting the best you can out of your gear. There's a lot of potential without going down the DSP road, and if you discover that you would like to expand, you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted June 29, 2014 Members Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hmmm Ringing out a system. Start flat and only do only what is necessary to achieve your end results. Good speakers & mics (agreed these are the least linear devices in the chain) should sound pretty good with no twiddling (EQ wise). That being said. different rooms & sources will almost always require some EQ. I guess my advice is only use what you need and no more. Often feedback problems and room issues can be solved by placement so try this first. SR is always a trade off and each room is a different challenge. Some will sound great with no EQ at all and some will sound terrible no matter what you do. In the latter case, knowing when to stop (that you've done the best you can is crucial). A good room is great and a bad room will never be great - learn to live with that. Acoustics are everything in SR. About the only thing you can do with a bad room is acoustic treatment (not you'rs to do) and pattern control (NOT putting sound where it will cause a problem). Since nobody can carry every patterned box with them every time, you use what you have and aim it the best you can. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 29, 2014 Members Share Posted June 29, 2014 There's pretty much nothing that DSP can do that can't be done with a good 31 band EQ and a Real Time Analyzer (RTA). I used to do that and it took about 20 minutes a side to flatten the frequency response. (Not at the club.) The DriveRack units have taken that task and simplified and sped it up. I still don't auto-EQ in the clubs but getting a pretty flat EQ before arriving in a club saves huge time. Avoiding playing so loud as to have a lot of feedback problems helps too. I'm with the guys that want you to get as much out of your system as you can the way it is today. In my mind, the flatter the system is to start the less you have to change any channel EQ from flat. (Noon position on most boards.) When I see a board where the channel EQ is all over the place, I'm thinking that the system is so far from flat that they are attempting to manage it from the individual channels and considering that on most boards that increases the number of controls needed to manage a PA by a multiple of the channels used. Whole things gets very clumsy fast. A MixWiz has somewhere near 400 controls for 16 channels. My Mackie DL1608 has somewhere near 700. A single well setup 31 band EQ will save you amazing amounts of time in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 29, 2014 Members Share Posted June 29, 2014 That's like saying there's nothing that can be done with calculus that couldn't be estimated by drawing rectangles on graph paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted July 1, 2014 Members Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just realized that at least lately, I'm pretty tired when spending time on this forum. Probably shouldn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 1, 2014 Members Share Posted July 1, 2014 If those QSC's cross at 100 hz, that is what the powered ELX subs cross at, should be a nice fit with existing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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