Members WynnD Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 We're doing an outdoor gig on the 20th and providing our own PA. I've got a lot to choose from for this country/rock band. I'm looking for an 85 dbc level at 100' and figure that I need about 115 dbc at 1 meter. All the speakers listed below can accomplish this. JBL SF25s (2 x 15" with horn. max spl 133 db.)EV SX100s (12" with horn tripod mounted. max spl 123 db)ZXA1 (8" with horn powered speaker. max spl 123 db)Kustom 1965 PA speakers with OEM Altec Lansing 2 x 15" drivers and a round horn. (OK, these are fun and probably the worst speaker choice, but I have them bi-amped and well esp'd so they actually sound pretty good. They are quite beamy. Don't actually know the maximum spl with these speakers, but I've measured 114 dbc at about 50' in a semi outdoor setting without subs.) Also have available and will use 2 ZXA1 subs and 1 JBL JRX 118 powered sub. (The EVs have more output. Funny being they're 12" drivers vs the 18" driver in the JBL.) There is a piece of me that thinks that the ZXA1s with matching subs would probably sound the best, but their small size might not look the best. (Performance always includes appearance.) The JBL SF25s horns won't sound as good mic'ing the drums. (Cymbals need a lot of high freq.) And they won't be easy to get high enough to get the horn above the audience. (A lot of people bring folding chairs and for them, it works out fine.) The SX100s look like they ought to be louder than the ZXA1s, but they're not. I do like how they sound. We do a lot of classic rock and country and the Kustoms would definitely fit the part. (And the field we're playing to, generally isn't overly full of people. First year of doing this, but this isn't the first concert and it is a housing development that has a lot of occupied homes in it, so attendance might be pretty good by then.) So what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 Sounds like the JBL's have the most output prob choose those, or all of them if your outdoors, the sky eats up sound mighty quickly. It's Rock band Wynn it's gotta rock right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 So to calculate this out you must first understand the the MaxSPL numbers are peaks. So if what you desire is average SPL of 85and 115 dB at one meter, then none of those speakers will produce that given about 10 dB for dynamic range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 Dboomer I am confused. If I have speakers that are 123 DB maximums splash and I have two of them which is 126 DB max splash and I need to have 10 DB headroom above the 115 spec'ed, it sounds like I actually meet that with any of them. If I have this wrong, help me understand where I am going wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 not a lot of outstanding choices for this outdoor gig but you gots what you gots! My initial guess would be the SX100 for mains, center cluster the two EV subs. Any chance to use the Zax1 for distributed fills on a delay, perhaps right behind the FOH, shooting the lawn? a weird idea might be to center cluster the two JBLS for subs, laid down. But that's going off a memory of the SF cabs having a lot of bottom end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 Something I probably should've mentioned, is that the audience to be between 50 and 100 people in a listening setting. There's very little background noise to the area will be playing no quantity of traffic no major roads any place close by. I do have an issue of only having 40 Amps on two circuits total to work with. And I also have 50 foot runs of extension cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 2 x 20a should be plenty. Doesn't seem like you'll have problems reaching a listenable level then. Nobody says you have to have giant kick drums or bass. If the vocals are over the band and clear, you are most of the way there. It's only if you start asking the backline to cover the whole gig, that's when it becomes difficult to hear the monitors onstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 My plan was to mic everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 10, 2014 Members Share Posted June 10, 2014 You are making some pretty optimistic guesses IMO 1. The SPL nukbers listed are calculated not actual. Immediately derate these numbers by 3dB minimum. 2. The SPL numbers are probably based on peak values in 2 ways... add 3dB to average to get peak (untis of measurement), plus you will need to divide by the expeced dynamic range to get an average level. Your 85dB SPL is going to be averaged in some way or another. If 10dB of dynamic range is acceptable to you, subtract 10dB off of the peak number to get average SPL. My guess realisticly is to subtract 16dB from the published numbers and that will give you a good idea what to expect in the real world. You might also find that you don't really need 85dB SPL c weighted at 100' which should also factor into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2014 Very possibly. About the only noise source nearby is the jungle gym about 200' away from the stage area. It's not huge, so the quantity of kids playing on it is fairly small. When I attended the first concert Friday before last, only the vocals were lower than they needed to be. Drums weren't mic'd except for the kick and they only had one sub placed in the backline. The bassist was gigging a 1000 watt Hartke with enough Hartke cabinets to handle that power. Don't think he was pushing it. (At least that was my impression.) By the way their PA speakers were Community. Don't really know much about them. They looked like they should have been adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted June 11, 2014 Members Share Posted June 11, 2014 My head hurts thinking about this. Ok, you have a few pairs of speakers and a couple sub options. Since a sub is being used then top boxes don't have to be massive to keep up. Sx100s and center cluster the zx1a subs. That's it. No more over thinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 11, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 The SX100's sound the best. Use those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 11, 2014 Members Share Posted June 11, 2014 yea, the SX are a nice cab. I especially love the SX300 in my experience with the ZXa1 it was nice sounding but I don't see it working for this. Good delay cabs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2014 If it were totally up to me, I'd take the Kustoms out again, Just got wind of a 361 with a 301 cabinet for sale. Great outdoors bass rig. (especially with my tendancy to keep the bass volume down.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 12, 2014 Members Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sounds like you have a big romantic attachment to the old Kustoms. And you're convinced they sound great, so why not just use those if that's what you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2014 They're not great, but they probably never sounded better than the way I'm running them. The Altec Lansing 15"s are pretty good even being 40 years old. (They're OEMs out of the Chanute factory.) I'll run them by my bandmates. Previous bands never had problems with them. These guys might be JBL lovers and I'm pretty sure that the JBLs can be made to work pretty good and they are loud. (At least until the horn drivers fry. Pretty sure the horns aren't rated 500 watts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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