Members OneEng Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 I just checked the specifications on my Yamaha DSR112 FOH speakers. Yamaha has decided to go around every home of every owner and gift them with an additional 200W of power! No kidding! When I bought them, they were only rated at 1300W, but now .... they are a full 1500W speaker I don't suppose this has anything to do with the ratings on the new JBL PRX712m? Sadly, the SPL remains unchanged at 134db. The JBL PRX712m on the other hand has increased from 133db to 135db over its 612 earlier version. I wonder if there is any validity in this number? Let the spec war continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 Isn't it interesting that the new crop of 2000w speakers don't have as much max SPL as the 1000w class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yeah, the marketing folks now suggest to us that decimal points are an un-necessary detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 I bet they'd notice if you moved the decimal point on their pay checks a few places to the left. But just remind them, it's not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 I blame it all on the new math they teach in school. Thats why "old school" is usually better. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 It gets even worse when you actually hear this stuff out loud. I was in a music store the other day and a salesmen said that the new Yorkville Parasource stuff was over 4000 watts a box! http://www.yorkville.com/loudspeakers/paraline_parasource/product/ps12p/ I didn't bother pointing out that their own specs take 4400 watts down to 1400 program, or perhaps closer to 750 watts continuous at an SPL of 128 dB. Oddly enough, the new NX55P rated at 2000 "watts" or 1000 program or maybe closer to 500 watts continous also has an SPL rated at 128 dB. But of course the Parasource box goes to eleven, so that's the difference. http://www.yorkville.com/loudspeakers/nx/product/nx55p-2/ I should say I've heard great things about the Parasource boxes, whether they are 4400 watts or 750ish watts. And just like television's 4400 returned home, Yorkville is re-shoring many or most of their speakers, so kudos to them for doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted June 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have also heard good rumblings about the ps12p. It is just a bit humorous at this point to see the silly "watts war" getting escalated to such crazy levels. I just found it particularly funny that some manufacturers are adding more watts simply by changing the sticker on the cab and updating the website Yamaha is definitely not the worst offender here by a long shot. In fact, the DSR's are about the loudest speaker in this class (*disclaimer .... I haven't had the opportunity to give a good listen to the ps12p). When the DSR's were claiming 1300W and the competitors were at 1000W, that was actually close to what I was hearing. Even the SPL ratings are BS .... but usually they are more representative of output than watts ever are (since you can honestly put a 10,000 W amp into a speaker box and limit its output carefully through DSP to the rating of the ~600W speaker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted June 5, 2014 Members Share Posted June 5, 2014 I must be getting old. Oddly I don't have an urge to burn my old 500 watt HPR 122i's that have a mere 131db output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted June 5, 2014 Members Share Posted June 5, 2014 I must be getting old! Oddly I don't have an urge to burn my old HPR122i's with their mere 500 watts and 131 db output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted June 5, 2014 Members Share Posted June 5, 2014 "When the DSR's were claiming 1300W and the competitors were at 1000W, that was actually close to what I was hearing." You where "hearing" 1300 watts? That's kind of an ironic statement considering the subject of your post! So what does 1300 watts sound like compared to 1000 watts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted June 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2014 "When the DSR's were claiming 1300W and the competitors were at 1000W' date=' that was actually close to what I was hearing." You where "hearing" 1300 watts? That's kind of an ironic statement considering the subject of your post! So what does 1300 watts sound like compared to 1000 watts?[/quote'] You misunderstand. I meant only the relative difference. The wattage of course has no relavance at all with respect to th output .... And less so to the quality of the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted June 6, 2014 Members Share Posted June 6, 2014 No. Doubling power will result in 3dB of gain. The increase in gain achieved by increasing power from 1000 watts to 1300 watts is inaudible to human ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted June 7, 2014 Members Share Posted June 7, 2014 I blame it all on the new math they teach in school. Thats why "old school" is usually better. ;-) I had a Jr High teacher who was always trying to find old math books that contained "new math". He was back into the 1800s with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted June 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 7, 2014 No. Doubling power will result in 3dB of gain. The increase in gain achieved by increasing power from 1000 watts to 1300 watts is inaudible to human ears. Sigh. Not my point; however, I do so love engineering calculations performed in a vacuum. Your assertion, as far as it goes, is correct. If you want to actually talk about a serious calculation of power to perceived output (as you can tell by my OP, this was more satire than a factual engineering discussion), then we should start by discussing a few common sense facts. First, SPL is calcuated is a pretty silly way by most manufacturers. SPL is a weighted average of amplitude over different frequencies. The most common weighting curve is A. The SPL A weighting curve was designed to accurately assess hearing damage potential for OSHA standards. It is therefore more of a HF measurement than anything meaningful for a Pro Audio speaker. HF is very easy to generate silly high levels with. This is especially true if you don't care about the quality of the HF signal you are producing. Second, the human ear is not equally sensitive to all frequencies. It takes considerably more LF energy to sound "loud" to us than it does HF energy. The rule of thumb I generally accept is that 2db in SPL is noticeable. 10db of SPL "sounds" like double the output. The point of my comparison was that the DSR112 rated at 1300W "sounded" about 30-40% louder to my ears than the other brands rated at 1000W. Thus the marketing number had a reasonable relationship to output to other speakers in its class. Finally, the reason that this is such satire is that we all know that none of these speakers actually utilize the full power output of the amp. I am sure that the amp specs are reasonably calcuated; however, the internal DSP prevents the speaker from ever seeing that power .... and thus the vast majority of that power will never result in output. The analogy I like is that it is akin to having a 1000 HP racing engine attached to a fist sized generator.... and then marketing the generator as a 1000 HP generator instead of a 5 Amp generator. Putting a big motor on the generator doesn't make it produce any more current (before it melts anyway). This is true in speakers as well. You can power a 400W speaker with 4000W of amplifier .... but you have to limit the output or it will blow. It is still a 400W speaker and is still limited by the physics of the speaker design .... not the amplifier powering it. I should save this text somewhere. It seems I post something like this about 2 times a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted June 7, 2014 Members Share Posted June 7, 2014 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.