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  • #46
    Yamaha stage custom or better. Generic Evans g2 heads. Sabian or zildjian cymbals, even B8 pro is acceptable.
    www.rock-bot.com
    Live-Band-Karaoke

    bassist and sound reinforcement

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    • #47
      I think we need to first ask whether the discussion is about micing the same kick night after night or are you asking about all comers? It also depends on what kind of music the drum is played in.

      Here's the thing about micing almost any acoustic instrument. It's like asking 10 blind men to describe an elephant by touch. It depends where you put the mic.

      Tuning the drum? Well in general you tune the drum for the sound you are after by listening ti it at a distance. That way the the size, the heads, the shell all come into play. Now if you stick a mic 2 inches from the drum you basically hear the sound at those 2 inches which probably isn't the same thing at all.

      My approach (and I'm a drummer) is to capture some kick sound with a mic and then process the hell out of it until I get what I want. Using this method a great drum and a crap drum can end up the same. My preference would be to use the drum as a trigger and trigger a sample and not even screw with a mic. Microphones are the leading cause of bad sound after all.
      Don Boomer

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      • #48
        I'm telling you, a digital mixer with top-notch drum sounds that can be triggered via microphones would be a sweet, sweet bandaid.
        Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by dboomer View Post
          I think we need to first ask whether the discussion is about micing the same kick night after night or are you asking about all comers? It also depends on what kind of music the drum is played in.
          As far as considering a new or different kit, it would be "the same kick" night after night... generally mic-ed, but a fair amount of the time the kick might not be mic-ed, or hasn't been in the past. Same goes for the rest of the kit, historically. Mic-ing or not might change in the future, "depending".

          The kind or type of music has certainly changed since the drummer's existing kit was purchased. The drummer's existing kit is "mid '80's vintage"... and was likely in-vogue/suitable for what he was doing at the time, which was playing in a teenaged garage band doing hair-band and metal music of the era... Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Whitesnake, Scorps, etc... The music/entertainment product we're doing now is an eclectic mix of dance music.

          Originally posted by dboomer View Post
          Here's the thing about micing almost any acoustic instrument. It's like asking 10 blind men to describe an elephant by touch. It depends where you put the mic.
          Tuning the drum? Well in general you tune the drum for the sound you are after by listening ti it at a distance. That way the the size, the heads, the shell all come into play. Now if you stick a mic 2 inches from the drum you basically hear the sound at those 2 inches which probably isn't the same thing at all.
          My approach (and I'm a drummer) is to capture some kick sound with a mic and then process the hell out of it until I get what I want. Using this method a great drum and a crap drum can end up the same. My preference would be to use the drum as a trigger and trigger a sample and not even screw with a mic. Microphones are the leading cause of bad sound after all.
          Well understood all of your above.
          Last edited by Audiopile; 11-16-2014, 10:38 AM.
          I need to catch up with those guys, for I am their leader.

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          • #50
            This video clip is with a well tuned DW collectors 18x20" kick with a Evans Emad head and no internal muffling. Mic placed halfway in port hole. http://youtu.be/IQpllDYjUik

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            • #51
              Originally posted by RoadRanger View Post
              Heads are quite a bit more important than the shells. IME just about any shells can be made to sound just fine. Of course that assumes properly functioning hardware. There's a bunch of damping products available - the rings and moongel's are pretty useful...

              Ouch! I gotta disagree here (Read one of my lengthy earlier posts about the history of drums, shells etc...). Yes heads ARE important but shells, lug mounting, drum mounting devices & hoops all play a significant role in how a drum sounds. I have a 14" tom that sounds great when free floating (I need to get some legs for it) but sounds like Kaka when mounted on a stand (even with an isolated "rims mount" mounting system). Shell wood type, thickness, bearing edges & laminate construction are HUGE in how a drum resonates. A bad one will never sound great and a great one will never sound bad no matter what head you put on it.

              Mark you're on the right track. DW makes great drums. Really many companies make great stuff if you're willing to buy their top of the line but for medium priced drums, my favorites (my opinion only) in order are - DW, Gretch, Yamaha. I own a Ludwig and a Mapex kit (also a Rogers dynasonic snare drum :-). I don't want to get anyone's panties in a bunch here. I've heard great Tama's, Pearl's, Premier's and a lot of companies that I don't even remember their names. This is purely personal opinion & subjective :-).

              Maple drums will sound bright resonant with great attack. Birch drums will sound warmer. There are lots of types of wood as well as mixed laminates so really the possibilities are endless. There's also a lot of "boutique" drum makers that make great drums. FWIW a goodly percentage of N. American made drums use Keller shells and bolt on their own hardware. Rule of thumb, he harder the wood the brighter, higher resonances you'll get.

              Good cymbals can easily cost as much as the rest of the kit Heavier cymbals will be brighter & louder (think LOUD R&R) Thinner cymbals tend to be darker & softer (think Jazz trio). They will also crack and/or wear faster with a hard hitter. Cymbals are like guitars, every one sounds different and it's an art to being able to pick a set without living with them for a while (I've gotten better at it over the years). My advice is to stick with medium to thin and don't cheap out (you might take along a drummer that you trust to help with this). It's really hard to buy cymbals mail order - you just have to hear them. There's a book simply called "The cymbal book" that (although dated back to the 80's) has some great guidelines for what to listen for.

              Another .20 dollars worth (long post :-).
              J.R. Previously jrble

              See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

              Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
              If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

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              • #52

                Originally posted by jlb View Post
                This video clip is with a well tuned DW collectors 18x20" kick with a Evans Emad head and no internal muffling. Mic placed halfway in port hole. http://youtu.be/IQpllDYjUik
                Thanks for the link!

                The drums and everything else sounds "pretty good"... in-fact quite good for what I'm guessing is a smart-phone captured video.

                The drums in the video are quite a bit more prominent in the mix than what we usually do... but appropriate for the song. Great tune BTW. Looks like there was a good crowd in attendance... and the song was being well received. What were the demographics of the audience?

                Also, I'm curious what mics were on the drums, specifics about the system, etc... ?

                I'm pretty sold on a DW collector's series, maple kit. I worked with a group a few weeks ago who was using one of these kits... it sounded great acoustically and mic-ed. I pumped their drummer for information and learned quite a bit.
                I need to catch up with those guys, for I am their leader.

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                • #53

                  Originally posted by Dogoth View Post

                  Good cymbals can easily cost as much as the rest of the kit

                  Cymbals are like guitars, every one sounds different and it's an art to being able to pick a set without living with them for a while
                  Thanks for the info and insight.

                  I believe for the time being the cymbal thing is of lesser concern. Fortunately I've kept most of the cymbals I had back when I was doing backline gear with sound and lights. And our drummer has a nice group of cymbals.
                  Last edited by Audiopile; 11-16-2014, 10:40 AM.
                  I need to catch up with those guys, for I am their leader.

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                  • #54
                    This is actually my kit that is used by many of my clients. They are willing to pay a little extra because they know it will be tuned to their liking for whatever style of music they are playing. This event was our towns annual Halloween ball at the local Town Hall/theater 400 capacity room. The band in the video played the whole Paranoid album 1st set. Second band is a great original blend of Zappa meets Primus IMO. Video of this band link below: http://youtu.be/7u_UiuYjzTk 10" and 12" toms are D2's, 14" floor tom ATM 25, kick drum, Miktek PM 11, AkG C431 hats and overhead. Danley SM80/TH 118 powered by Crown, Mackie DL 1608 for above video clips. Video clip below. Same kit with better audio quality. Outdoor event with Keith Jarrets son on the drums. Midas Pro 1 is the only change in the system here. http://youtu.be/zf7rp4LxrJc

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                    • #55
                      I can't seem to edit my previous post? No spaces between paragraphs etc. Does not appear the way I typed it. Anyway, the snare mic is a Sennheiser 504.

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                      • Dogoth
                        Dogoth commented
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                        The new forum software isn't a very good word processor. Sometimes it works fine and sometimes it's just plain hinky. I've learned odd tricks like use the cut/copy/paste to fix big bo bos. Again it's intermittent in that sometimes it works fine and sometimes x big bo b :-)........












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