Upgrading Mics

[JV90]

I'm getting some picky customers and they were asking me to upgrade my reliables Xm8500's from behringer, altought most of them have sing with them and I didn't had any complaint about the sound that they produced, but 3 of them are very picky and I think that some snobbery is about using the brand with them, however I adquired 2 835 from Senheisser and they were used but they look almost new and sound very well, so those picky customers were telling me to add more of the Senheisser 835, grab one of the same brand for the guitar amp and get a drum kit as well (yes, all Senheisser); my drum kit is the Samson Skit7 and I have 6 more of the C02 condenser mic that comes with the drum kit as well,

 

It make sense at all until certain point (money is basically the point), after I grab an X32 to upgrade from analog to digital and see, hear, feel the wonderfull and amazing side of the digital world on mixers comes this picky people and in one way they were amazed to work with a digital mixer that bears the behringer brand, but they were also starting to complaints to change the Xm8500's mics that I have (I got 6 of them), so do you guys could give me a hint on this? What do you think? I'm not into arenas, I've received some riders asking for this and that, but I just tell them what I have and some would accept it, some not, but my primary customers are churches and corporates, on them I've never received any complaints at all from the mics,

 

I also have 3 wireless mic, each one from different manufacturer, AudioTechnica, Senheisser, Shure, and I'm thinking just to sell the shure and audio technica to get 2 senheisser more

 

Whatdo you guys think ?

[agedhorse]

Your customers are telling you want they want to see, it's up to you to listen with your ears and not your wallet.

[JV90]

Yes Agedhorse, you are right, I'll have to make that update then....

[witesol]

Although it could be snobbery, it might very well be clients nudging you towards some better tools. While you can make the low quality mics work, its so much easier to start with a better tone instead of trying to make a Co2 mic work on a drum kit, for example. keep that stuff by all means.

 

An E835 is a very decent, durable mic. I don't particularly care for a lot of the newer Neo mics but i own some of those and still use them. You may find it easier to reject feedback with better mics. Nobody will complain about them either. Sm58s and 57s always work. The sm57 on drums, guitar amps, horns, percussion, etc. Sennheiser e609 are a pretty cool little mic you can drape over a guitar amp and skip using a mic stand. Shure beta52 is a good ll-around kick mic. Audio technica atm25 too. Sennheiser e602 as well.

 

Overhead mics are less, or more important depending on the size of the gig. Bigger gig or outdoors? Then you may need something on cymbals or hat. I've found most drummers don't question mics all that much except when you don't mic something! Your co2 mics may be decent enough and you can cut the ice pick 6k tone out. Hah! I prefer darker and smoother OH mics if given a choice. Most of the ones we can afford seem to be bright chinese'y. Don't always think you have to go stereo spaced pair either. I'd much rather have 3 good mics on a drum kit than 5 crappy ones. Hard to beat a good Ol' shure sm81. Oktava are good. The new Rode m5 pair are quite nice. Sterling ST33 is another $100 mic that performs. AT 40 series also. I buy lots of mics used. Off Craigslist . You have to know what you're doing and bring something to test them.

[JV90]

Thanks witesol for your kind response, the e609 (square type) is the one that they were telling me to get for guitar amp, I was also thinking to keep the C02's, I'll use them on acoustic guitars and choirs and they performed remarkable on those task and I don't have any complaint at all using them on those task, the s kit 7 from Samson does sound good also, what I've found is that it depends on the drums and drummer, if the drums it's well tune and more, but when a good drummer appears with a good drum I got good sound of them too; my xm8500 have performed remarkable well too even if they show the behringer brand,

 

I'm towards to look for more e835, get the e609, and then get the drum kit (3 pack from sennheiser) for toms, however? On this brand what would be the one equivalent for the sm57, beta 52, for congas and timbales? We use a lot of those instruments over here, and the xm8500 works very well, you know, for the hand cowbell and bongoes too, it seems the e609 work for brass instruments; I'd like to stick with one brand instead having 3 or more brands like I'm having at this moment with my mics and wireless, that's why I'm selling my audio technica and shure wireless to get at least the 835 xsw wireless (at least 2 of them) and keep the old g100 from them that I have at the moment,

 

Do I'm missing something getting sennheiser instead the shure ones?

[monthlymixcd]

I don't think that many guitarists would grumble if you have e609 and SM57s in your mic locker. Either would also be fine for horns, but even though I think the e609 would sound fine for some drum applications I'd keep it away from percussionists... not sure how many hits it could take.

 

Not sure what your wireless frequency restrictions are over there... but there are a LOT of good wireless mic systems here in the States that have become obsolete due to the FCC selling off the 700mHz and 600mHz bands... might be an opportunity for you to pick up some bargains on eBay if their use is still allowed where you are.

 

Audix makes nice drum kits. Even the Fusion mics aren't complained about too much where I am. If you can source them where you are check pricing... here they're a good value. Having said that, the Shure Beta52, Audix D6, or an AKG D112 should meet most riders for kick mics. I personally hate the D112 and think that the Beta 52 makes a much better bass cab mic than a kick drum mic. Heil makes great mics and I really like their PR48 on kick drum and bass cabs. Really though... a few SM57s, a decent set of over heads and a couple of those good kick/bass mics on hand (don't slight the double-kick guys) and you're golden. I remember reading on here about someone that has used just a pair of Earthworks overheads (SR25s, maybe?) for the entire kit with great results with no noses in the air... but I don't have $1,200 to spend just on a pair of overhead mics. Although two mics vs. 7 mics and you might be money ahead in the long run. lol

 

As far as vocal mics go... Shure, Sennheiser, and Audix are probably most rider-friendly around here. Also, take a look at the Heil PR35 if you can find 'em. Great multi-purpose vocal mic, that one. If you work with REALLY loud bands think about having one or more of the EV ND967 or Audix OM7 mics for vocals. They are GBF champs. Still high GBF and also a little more versatile are the Senn e945, EV ND767, and Audix OM5. The Senn e835 is a great value mic... but not in the same league as most of these.

[Shaster]

Thanks witesol for your kind response, the e609 (square type) is the one that they were telling me to get for guitar amp, I was also thinking to keep the C02's, I'll use them on acoustic guitars and choirs and they performed remarkable on those task and I don't have any complaint at all using them on those task, the s kit 7 from Samson does sound good also, what I've found is that it depends on the drums and drummer, if the drums it's well tune and more, but when a good drummer appears with a good drum I got good sound of them too; my xm8500 have performed remarkable well too even if they show the behringer brand,

 

I'm towards to look for more e835, get the e609, and then get the drum kit (3 pack from sennheiser) for toms, however? On this brand what would be the one equivalent for the sm57, beta 52, for congas and timbales? We use a lot of those instruments over here, and the xm8500 works very well, you know, for the hand cowbell and bongoes too, it seems the e609 work for brass instruments; I'd like to stick with one brand instead having 3 or more brands like I'm having at this moment with my mics and wireless, that's why I'm selling my audio technica and shure wireless to get at least the 835 xsw wireless (at least 2 of them) and keep the old g100 from them that I have at the moment,

 

Do I'm missing something getting sennheiser instead the shure ones?

 

The e835's are good mics, maybe a bit too much top end for some techs, but they work well. I own 5 or 6 (no I'm not going to go count them).

 

Re: guitar mics, if a guitar player looks at an SM57 and complains that you should be using an e609, then he's hearing with his eyes IMHO. I personally would rather have a 57 on my guitar than the new 609's, but that's me.

 

As to going with all one brand that's kind of uneccessary. However, if you're talking about your front line vocal mics, then yes, going with all one brand, or better yet a "complete" set of two brands would be good. For instance for vocals, I've mentioned my e835's but I also have four SM58's and four SM57's in case the Senns don't work. I've also got a couple of Beta 58's, as well as a trio of Audio Technicas (they can imitate that condenser crispy sound).

 

Regarding the wirless Sennheisers, I just tried one out on my Saturday house gig a couple of times. I was formerly using a wired beta 58 on the singer, which worked well, but the wireless Sennheiser was kind of brittle - and I had troubles dialing that top end down. For two Saturdays now we've switched to the new Shure XLS recharble wireless. It's so much easier to get warmth and character out of that mic. We'll also try the Beta version, but I've been pretty happy with the plain 58.

 

 

[JV90]

Thanks a lot Shaster and Monthlymixcd for your kind mails, a lot of info you guys are giving me, I didn't knew about the frequency restriction wireless mics over thete? Over here we don't have that kind of troubles at all, so I'm gonna look for them over eBay, what we can find over here is that sometimes you get some wireless with the same frequency, but for that you have to be very lucky to get some in the same frequency; what I've found calling some friends are some used sm57 and sm58, I went to see and heard them, but they look old with scratches, but they sure sound good, the grilles are in good condition, so I've found 6 sm58 and 4 sm57, it would be possible to paint them? I have a friend who owns a car paint shop, he has made for me some paint jobs and he is very skill work his work so I was wondering if I can get those shure and give them to my friend to paint it? What you guys think? They are selling me the complete pack at $60 each not a bad deal, and I look very well to see if they are Chinese copies but they are not, at least I tried them each and they sound equal the 58 and the 57, or do you guys recommend me to get new ones?

[monthlymixcd]

I buy used 58s and 57s all the time... if you know what to look for, the counterfeits are usually pretty easy to spot. The weight is the big giveaway for me... and if not, then plugging them in and having a LOT of handling noise is the other. The SM57/58 mics have changed very little in the 50+ years that the models have been made... it's a solid design. If your buddy does good powder coating paint work it might be cool to take all of your Shures and have them all done in the same easily identifiable color that is all your own... purple, red, whatever... might discourage theft? The powder coating is key... just painting them with auto-body paint won't hold up over time and will likely not be worth the effort of removing the XLR connectors and guts for the painting process.

[JV90]

I see, so today in gonna look again to see if u can get them, and I'll try what you are saying besides the test drives, so lookout for handling noise and weight, good advice; I'll ask my friend for the powder coating paint then,

 

I'm gonna make an offer for the complete set, hope they accept it, and then take it for the car shop for their paint job,

 

Thanks a lot, I'll keep you guys post of what's gonna happen today

[cappttenron]

I have had some Shure mics a very long time some over 23 years. sm58s and 57s and a few b58s. They have all held up well never replaced any! I guess the best thing is people know and like them.

[monthlymixcd]

I see, so today in gonna look again to see if u can get them, and I'll try what you are saying besides the test drives, so lookout for handling noise and weight, good advice; I'll ask my friend for the powder coating paint then,

 

I'm gonna make an offer for the complete set, hope they accept it, and then take it for the car shop for their paint job,

 

Thanks a lot, I'll keep you guys post of what's gonna happen today

 

 

Fakes that I've seen are a lot noisier when handling the mic, they typically weigh less than the real deal, and it's unlikely that you'd see them road-worn... as I doubt that they'd hold up long enough or be good enough to really get that much use. lol

 

EDIT: FYI... you'd need to disassemble and remove the grill and guts of the mics and only send the shells to be powder-coated... as it involves very high temperatures. If the guts of those mics are "potted" in... meaning that they are sealed inside the mic housings in glue or another substance... this might not be practical. Here's how powder-coating works BTW: http://www.wikihow.com/Powder-Coat

[agedhorse]

I woudn't ness with paining or power coating, the cost and hassle and potential for damaging the guts is far more than the value.

[JV90]

Ok, I bought the whole package: 8 shure sm58 + 4 shure sm57 for $300, and they accepted, before I gave them the money I look for all of your advice on eachj of them, weight, noise handling, and the tips that are over the Internet, all of them are 100% real ones, the owner tips me that he bought some time ago for his band and for a recording studio that he had at that time, but he dismantled everything and sold the instruments of the studio but he kept the mics, they look fine but used, sobre scratch, I just called Wilson who's the one that would take care for the paint job to see them new again, so I'll follow your advice, also he (previous owner of the mics) gave me 6 lp mic claws for free, 2 of them were broken but it can be fix, so Wilson is gonna take them to paint them as well, I think I got a very good deal with this mics; now, the sm57 are multiuse ones for horns, congas, timbales, guitar and sd drum(at least is what the shire website says on their charts), on the sm58 some of the grills are a little not rounded, but I've seen that guitar center or some alike store sells them, so I can get the replacements for the 2 that are a little deformed, so now comes this other part, or would be right to use the sm57 for snare drum, the qtoms from the Samson drum kit and as you guys mentioned that oh cymbals could be handle by the C02 from Samson, is it OK to get a beta 52 for the bass drum? Or should I use the qkick mic from the Samson kit? Or should I get the beta 52 and change the toms mics as well? Any hint on this? Sm57 for guitars, horns, brass, cajon, bongoe, etc., also in keeping my XM8500 just in case....

[agedhorse]

I think you are making a big mistake painting them, now they will look just like the counterfeits you are trying to avoid... If I saw a painted 58 I would assume that there was something to hide. That's assuming they still work after you put them back together.

[JV90]

Really? But They look very scratch and old, I can live and work with used equipment as long as they work fine, but their looks its not what I'll like to see on my rig, my XM8500 are very used, however they don't have any scratches and are pristine, the Samson drum kit as well, and the c02's looks are fine too, and getting the sm58 how are at the moment I think it wont be as good for me because how actually they look, Altought is a valid point that you are mentioned

[JV90]

Witesol, you've mentioned audio technica atm25,I 've seen those over here, do you think it would be fine for bass drum? Better or equal as the shure beta52?

[Shaster]

Really? But They look very scratch and old' date=' I can live and work with used equipment as long as they work fine, but their looks its not what I'll like to see on my rig, my XM8500 are very used, however they don't have any scratches and are pristine, the Samson drum kit as well, and the c02's looks are fine too, and getting the sm58 how are at the moment I think it wont be as good for me because how actually they look, Altought is a valid point that you are mentioned[/quote']

 

Painting the mics could be an iffy proposition. Could you post a few pictures so we can see how bad the scratches are?

 

Also, if you are using the SM57's for insturments, you don't need to paint them at all. In fact, you could just tell people that these are the original Shure mics, much better than the new ones, and painting them would reduce their value That's probably true as well.

 

 

[Shaster]

Witesol' date=' you've mentioned audio technica atm25,I 've seen those over here, do you think it would be fine for bass drum? Better or equal as the shure beta52?[/quote']

 

Just jumpng in.... I'm not too familiar with the ATM25 but I've heard good things about it. I find the Beta52 a little "lifeless" unless it's paired with a Shure SM91. That's just one opinion out of many though.

 

BTW, I'm not a kick mic snob by any means. A while back, I didn't have my kick mic on this farily low production gig (long story) so I grabbed an SM57 and threw it on kick. The drummer liked it so much, that on that particular gig, with that particular drum kit, we've been using the 57, even though I have other options.

 

[agedhorse]

If I saw painted mics, the FIRST thing I would think is counterfeits. Just sayin'

[witesol]

you can buy the replacement ball windscreens

[Tomm Williams]

Thanks witesol for your kind response, the e609 (square type) is the one that they were telling me to get for guitar amp, I was also thinking to keep the C02's, I'll use them on acoustic guitars and choirs and they performed remarkable on those task and I don't have any complaint at all using them on those task, the s kit 7 from Samson does sound good also, what I've found is that it depends on the drums and drummer, if the drums it's well tune and more, but when a good drummer appears with a good drum I got good sound of them too; my xm8500 have performed remarkable well too even if they show the behringer brand,

 

I'm towards to look for more e835, get the e609, and then get the drum kit (3 pack from sennheiser) for toms, however? On this brand what would be the one equivalent for the sm57, beta 52, for congas and timbales? We use a lot of those instruments over here, and the xm8500 works very well, you know, for the hand cowbell and bongoes too, it seems the e609 work for brass instruments; I'd like to stick with one brand instead having 3 or more brands like I'm having at this moment with my mics and wireless, that's why I'm selling my audio technica and shure wireless to get at least the 835 xsw wireless (at least 2 of them) and keep the old g100 from them that I have at the moment,

 

Do I'm missing something getting sennheiser instead the shure ones?

 

 

One of the most versatile mics you can get is the EV N/D308. To me they do everything a 57 can do but better. Small, light, very positionable and can be found under $100 easily. Though discontinued, they're easy to find.

[witesol]

The ATM 25 is a great all-arounder . nice on kick, horn, bass amp. Most anything Audio Technica is built well. I still like the ATM41a mic and still use mine.

lately I've been using the Heil pr22 a lot...even for drum OH, but not as much on vocals.. A good $120 mic

 

http://www.heilsound.com/pro/microphones/pr-22

[JV90]

Interesting tips from all of you, I got the mics on my shop, so I'm gonna take a photo from them to show you all how are they....

[JV90]

Btw, thanks everyone for your reply on this thread, it sure is helping me a lot