Members hammondman Posted May 23, 2014 Members Share Posted May 23, 2014 Hi, Has anyone had any experience with the RCF ART 310a active 10" speaker and the Alto TS112a active 12"? How do both of these compare in output and bass response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted May 23, 2014 Members Share Posted May 23, 2014 Can't see Alto keeping up with rcf in any department really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted May 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2014 Well the RCF is in a different class of speaker but I'm not sure the 10" woofer would be able to keep up with the bigger 12" in the Alto for deep bass at higher volumes or at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonthomas Posted May 24, 2014 Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 RCF will destroy it above 70 hz, physics favors lager speakers for bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 24, 2014 Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 Maybe, maybe not. Physics is based on more than size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 24, 2014 Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 I'd be very surprised if the RCFs don't have at least a 6db advantage. The altos would be more in the class of my old Peavey PR12Ds - quite OK for smaller gigs over subs (150ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted May 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 As some of you may have read on some of my other threads I use my TS112a as FOH on acoustic gigs, wedge monitors with my bigger pa and as a keyboard amp for workshops and rehearsals. I have been extremely impressed with the TS112a's for the £300 I paid for the pair!! I've also found it to have quite impressive bass response at moderate volumes! On the acoustic gig's I do I put a small amount of upright bass through the TS112a and it generally sounds great in the venues we do. The cheapest I've seen the RCF 310a's in the UK is £355 each which is more than double the price of the Alto TS112a's! I don't want to sacrifice the bass response I'm getting with the TS112a's and would ideally be happier with a little more which I don't think I'm likely to get with the 310a's?? Also, apart from having at least as much bass response at higher SPL's the RCF 310 would have to be dramatically better than the TS112a to justify spending more than double the price!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 24, 2014 Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 6dB more is 4x the speaker for twice the price... sounds like cheaper is more expensive in this case eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted May 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 According to the published specs the Alto TS112a has a maximum SPL of 125db and the RCF has 127db!? Has this 6db difference people are mentioning been measured?Also, how does the bass response compare on the RCF 310a vs the Alto TS112a? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 I believe you will find the real measures difference to be close to 6db average. I think you will also find the real world lf response to be similar. Most of the alto stuff I have seen is geared for the lower end market, RCF in general makes more substantial speakers (if you can get over the ugly cosmetics on some of their art lines). There is a reason why the rcf cost more IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted May 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yes the Alto stuff is definitely geared towards the lower end market but they actually sound surprisingly good! Way better than I was expecting! I'm not keen on the look of the newer RCF speakers (particularly the 400 series upwards). The 310a looks a little better than those but the older 310A-I has a full grill and looks great! Have you heard both the Alto TS112a and RCF 310a? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 Even cheap stuff these days can sound very good. I've tested quite a few actives that sounded better than their low price tags would suggest. There are always reasons for one product being cheaper than the other however, and often these include shortcuts/compromises = using lower quality parts, circuit boards, a thinner plastic cabinet that almost always result in reduced long term reliability and/or poor performance at higher output levels. (many of these lower priced speakers start limiting quicker than the more expensive ones - Tapco Thumps are a good example of this). IMO, the RCF cab has a much better chance of still being fully functional in 10 years where the Alto will have likely have had at leastone failure of some sort. I've already read of more ALto TS speaker failures than I have about RCF 3 series failures, and the TS have only been out for a short while while the 3 series has been available for 6+ years. If you mostly play at lower levels, the Altos may be just fine, but RCF has been around for a long time and the quality of their speakers and transducers is almost legendary... They are also completely built in Italy as opposed to being assembled in China from various "value" parts. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 I would need to add that although the Art 3 line is known as terrific sounding and high SPL speakers, deeper bass response is really not their strong point. Most models in this line offer very little response below 70hz. That said, in today's actives, quite a bit of that deep response is done through processing (bass boost) and this is usually reduced at higher levels. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 Design decisions often dictate the overall voicing of the speakers, but the 10" drivers in some of RCF's prodicts can excel at low frequency if that's the specific design choice made for the product. Many of RCF's products are designed to be used with a subwoofer. In those cases, it might be a better choice to use a driver with different power-bandwidth strengths as that can improve overall performance in the intended application. Overall, RCF drivers are very, very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted May 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Thanks guys. I think I'll probably stick with the Alto's for the time being. I was using them as monitors on a gig at the weekend and the drummer was particularly impressed with them. He said it was one of the clearest he has heard and found it to be better than what he was used to when playing full time on one of the luxury cruise liners! I also had a DJ going through my main system and forgot to mute the monitors before setting his levels and the sound absolutely blasted the TS112a's until I quickly muted them. Thankfully this didn't damage them and has given me more confidence in their reliability. I spoke to one guy who has used both the TS112a's and RCF310a's and he said that the TS112a does have a little extra bass. He said he found them both to be very good and either would be capable of doing a good job. He favoured the RCF310a for acoustic instruments but said he doubted if the RCF was putting out any bass frequencies below 70Hz as Al has already mentioned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Kinda funny how no one who has responded has actually compared the two speakers in real life but assume the RCF must be better. I have heard of hearing with your eyes, but apparantly people here are hearing with their wallet! How was the difference of 6dB determined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Perhaps engineering experience and a knowledge of the drivers used in the RCF product? I do have extensive experience with RCF and have quite a bit of their product sitting in my shop. I have also designed with their components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Perhaps engineering experience and a knowledge of the drivers used in the RCF product? I do have extensive experience with RCF and have quite a bit of their product sitting in my shop. I have also designed with their components. And you have had equal experience with Alto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Believe me, if I had a choice I would choose RCF over Alto any day, but the OP did ask specifically about the low end reponse of the two cabs. I am pretty impressed(and surprised) by the low end on the TS112A. They have more low end than my SRX 712's when compared at equal levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 The srx712 was designed specifically to be used with a sub if any real low end was needed. This was a focused trade off to size, weight broadband efficiency and flat response. Normalizing for equiv. metrics, it's considerably more efficient at higher powers than either the art or alto. It's the trade offs made in this particular product and the intended applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 I agree. For low budget jobs where a full range cab is needed, the Alto is actually a better choice. That's why I have both - the right tool for the right job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Louis Schwartz Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Since we're comparing RCF and Alto here, does anyone have experience with or knowledge of the SXM112a (the Alto 12" coaxial stage monitor)? I've been planning to finish my small PA upgrade with another set of RCF 310a's for use as wedges, but for various financial reasons, I'm wondering if a set of the Altos might be at least a viable, lower cost alternative. This is for a very moderate stage volume situation with a semi-acoustic ethnic music ensemble. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Since we're comparing RCF and Alto here, does anyone have experience with or knowledge of the SXM112a (the Alto 12" coaxial stage monitor)? I've been planning to finish my small PA upgrade with another set of RCF 310a's for use as wedges, but for various financial reasons, I'm wondering if a set of the Altos might be at least a viable, lower cost alternative. This is for a very moderate stage volume situation with a semi-acoustic ethnic music ensemble. Louis They may be viable for that application if you don't need more speaker than they can deliver. That's a different question than saying one is "as good or better" than the other at 1/2 the price. If you only need what the less capable speaker brings to the table than that's the better choice for that application but does not hold true for all applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Louis Schwartz Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 They may be viable for that application if you don't need more speaker than they can deliver. That's a different question than saying one is "as good or better" than the other at 1/2 the price. If you only need what the less capable speaker brings to the table than that's the better choice for that application but does not hold true for all applications. Yes. That's the calculus I'm running through right now. I'm thinking that the SXM112a's will do the modest monitoring job I need them to do, and I know that's not because they are as good for this or for several other applications as another pair of 310a's would be. I'm also aware that I'd be giving up some of the advantages of taking one more step in the direction of the fully "modular" approach I've been aiming at (one more pair of 310a's would give me the same speaker all around--as FOH alone or as tops over my little EV subs, as side-fills, and as wedges, plus the extra redundancy and the possibility of doubling up the FOH if I ever need to). All that poised against the simple question of whether or not I'll be able to afford another pair of RCFs any time soon. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted May 26, 2014 Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 You need To go to a shop to compare I think. People who buy quality rarely buy low end I think. Although for the money alto seem to get good reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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