Members witesol Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm dealing with a situation where I've been brought in to assess a purchase situation made by a venue. The venue was sold all used gear; speakers, power amps and was charged an installation fee. My own feelings about selling used equipment commercially is it should be market value, considering it's been paid for and depreciated already. Whether it's high or low market value depends on the condition. I don't think there should be a markup over market/used value. As far as installation and design, that's a little more ambiguous. I suppose some sort of warranty should be in effect as well, perhaps 90 days. In other words, the client should not pay substantially more than the prices one could find on ebay, craigslist, Soundbroker, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 I take it that the venue made the purchase without the background to know better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 Warranty makes a *huge* difference to me when I am buying equipment. Sell me something used hard, and I'm likely to cough up another 15% for a 90-day warranty...maybe more. Especially if I *need* the equipment and can't afford to buy anew. Also, depending on how serviceable it is. Warranty is less important for passive speakers than amps, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 I believe the venue has every right to pay whatever it needs to pay to acquire gear that suits their own needs, and absolutely I would expect them to pay over the cost of e-bay because they are not dealing with the risk and hassle of buying sight unseen and untested. If a vendor provides the used gear, the vendor has every right to mark the gear up to cover their risk and their hassle and their cost of acquiring, as well as the cost of any warranty that should arise as they stand behind it. We ALWAYS mark up used gear to cover these costs. Why should they sell the gear at e-bay cost and then have to eat the cost of support and repair/replacement if necessary. Sorry, that's the value added service that a dealer/installer/integrator brings to the table. I generally do not install used gear that we do not provide because we do not want to be married to somebody else's problem and the liability that it brings. All used gear that we install comes with a 90 day to 1 year warranty... how much does that bring to the table??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 good points. Perhaps Ebay was a bad example. and I agree, it's risky. I meant that as a gauge of an item's value. I use ebay like that frequently; how much is "X" piece of gear going for average used. Then decide what extra clean shape or added value services are worth. I call that due diligence. When I've sold gear like this, I've charged market value for the gear and for support, repair and replacement , that is in my fee...so I suppose that's the same, it all works out in the wash. How much markup would you charge, if for example you offered a 90 day warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 I take it that the venue made the purchase without the background to know better? yes. nobody checked out this installer, nobody looked at the gear prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 Gear sells at what a willing buyer is willing to pay. No more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted May 13, 2014 Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 Assigning a price range to used gear is not easy. I've seen so much gear at such varied prices. Lately I've been trying to sell an excellent condition re20 for $225 without a single bite, I know they are going for much more so why no buyers? It puzzles me how this market moves with used gear. One big crapshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2014 How about $1k for a QSC Powerlite 1.8 from 1997 I told the venue they could go buy two GX5 for a thousand bucks and have a 5 year warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Jack Kirkpatrick: Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 How about $1k for a QSC Powerlite 1.8 from 1997 I told the venue they could go buy two GX5 for a thousand bucks and have a 5 year warranty. The thing is, in a few seconds they could Google this themselves. It's fine trusting someone you know, or has a good reputation, and pay above the price you could find the pieces for eventually on your own. You're paying for their expertise in knowing what to buy and where to buy it, or pulling from inventory they have been carrying. Shame on them for not vetting an unknown or bother getting a second opinion. This sounds like a case where opportunity met laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Geez I wish I had 225 to spare right now! Always wanted to an RE20 on a Leslie lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 I have paid top dollar to fill in a hole with a specific piece of gear that is discontinued. Sometimes, it's worth more to a particular user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 14, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I contend that the gear did indeed sell for fair market value, which is generally defined as the price that a seller who is under no duress to sell will accept from a buyer who is under no duress to buy. But I like how Don stated it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Jack Kirkpatrick: Shanna' date=' they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash. I[/quote'] it took me a while Don.. hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Fart Rocker Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Maybe it's just me, but when I'm buying PA gear I prefer to buy new. You have all of the factory warranties. With a guitar or tube amp, I don't mind used. It's easy to tell what kind of condition it's in and whether it all works or not. With PA gear, there just seems to be too many variables and functions that you might overlook when checking out used gear. Plus, to repair most PA gear requires an experienced tech and the cost that goes along with it. Guitars and tube amps, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_f_c_99 Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Jack Kirkpatrick: Shanna' date=' they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash. I[/quote'] Funniest thing I heard today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Maybe it's just me' date=' but when I'm buying PA gear I prefer to buy new. You have all of the factory warranties. With a guitar or tube amp, I don't mind used. It's easy to tell what kind of condition it's in and whether it all works or not. With PA gear, there just seems to be too many variables and functions that you might overlook when checking out used gear. Plus, to repair most PA gear requires an experienced tech and the cost that goes along with it. Guitars and tube amps, not so much.[/quote'] I've bought Tens of thousands of dollars of used PA over the years. I agree the brand new with warranty is nice. But, i've had luck with many a power amp, main speakers, monitors, mixer boards and all the ancillary gear too. I tend to only buy QSC power amps since it's a 40 minute drive and they're awesome. Funny, the worst i've been burnt was a pair of Guitar Center JBL Sr4733x "fully tested" mains that had 4 of the 6 total components blown! My bad, I didn't even hook them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 14, 2014 Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Maybe it's just me' date=' but when I'm buying PA gear I prefer to buy new. You have all of the factory warranties. With a guitar or tube amp, I don't mind used. It's easy to tell what kind of condition it's in and whether it all works or not. With PA gear, there just seems to be too many variables and functions that you might overlook when checking out used gear. Plus, to repair most PA gear requires an experienced tech and the cost that goes along with it. Guitars and tube amps, not so much.[/quote'] This is exactly why the value added from a warranty and support adds to the cost. For example, say that you have a choice of spending $20k new, $10k used with a 90 or 120 day or even 1 year warranty or used on e-bay... how much would you spend without knowing who you are dealing with and without the support and warranty? $5k? The $5k that the reseller makes in "profit" also goes to supporting the cost of service and refurbishment that's necessary to deliver a quality product to the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 14, 2014 Aged, an example of what markup you'd add? for example: A pair of JBL 715 over 718 subs and two PLX 3402 amps. Say the current average market value is $3k for the 4 speakers and $1200 for both amps. $4200 sale. 90 day warranty? just that, no installation or tuning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 15, 2014 Members Share Posted May 15, 2014 Used price would range from say $3500-$5000 depending on condition and location (factor freight into the cost of course), so I would probably look at getting $5500-$6k with warranty which may include some shop refurbishing depending on the cost and what parts are necessary. Rarely can you just broker gear without thoroughly testing and some repairs/refurbishment. That's pretty much the way it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ok, so a roughly 20% markup to cover your warranty and service. Sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 15, 2014 Members Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ok, so a roughly 20% markup to cover your warranty and service. Sounds reasonable. It does depend on what kind of condition they want their gear in. For example I sold a lot of used larger consoles that may have had an average used selling price of say $5k and a new price of say $20k for $10k but that included a stripped frame rebuild so the console was WAY better than average condition and came with a 1 year warranty. You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted May 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 15, 2014 yea, that's completely different. The other thing is, you take care of the servicing as if you had to take that piece out and use it yourself on a gig. that's worth a lot IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 16, 2014 Members Share Posted May 16, 2014 Exactly, the price paid is proportional to the value brought to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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