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Pairing K12 and DXR12 as tops: Experience?

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  • Pairing K12 and DXR12 as tops: Experience?

    OK, it's the same old "stage" along the long wall of a 74' x 145' two-story rectangular ballroom issue. Seven piece band doing a high-visibility fundraiser for Big Brothers Big Sisters. Last year they just used the K12s over Mackie SRS 1500 subs -- one per side facing pretty much straight forward -- and coverage at the ends of the rectangle was lacking so this year they want to use two tops per side to get better coverage. Problem is that they don't have four K12s. I have a pair of DXR12s which appear pretty similar based on the published specs -- at least to my newbie eye. The Mackie subs crossover at 120 and both the K12s and my DXR12 can be configured the same.

    Although not ideal are there any glaring red flags with pairing one K12 facing predominantly forward and one DXR12 facing predominantly down-hall? They both advertize 90x60 coverage and I know to place them as close together as possible -- one will be on a pole above the sub and the other on a stand. I also considered setting one of each up beforehand and A/B'ing them to see if any of the various settings on the back of each allowed them to sound more similar if needed. Thoughts/advice? --I mean other than stay out of the SR business if you'd even consider mixing three different cab manufacturers!
    ...dave

  • #2
    I know I'm not answering your specific question, but when playing at these types of events, especially if they only really need additional coverage at the ends of the rectangle for announcements and auctions, I've used satellite powered speakers on stands.

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    • #3
      If you can hack the esthetics IMO putting like speakers together is better...

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      • #4
        Different latency on the processing, that's the worstthing that could add a substantial blip in the response. Could be as much as 3msec over broad band program, something I would avoid. What about pairing like speakers together?
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        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RoadRanger View Post
          If you can hack the esthetics IMO putting like speakers together is better...
          That was going to me my 2 cents as well. Not symmetrical, but both are 12" boxes with full grills. The logos are even roughly the same color and location on the speaker. I doubt people will even notice.
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          • #6
            One pair mounted high as possible pointed towards back wall, other pair mounted lower as center/front fills ?

            A&H GL2800 console, BagEnd Crystals over D-18's, 12"and 15" BagEnd and EAW wedges powered and processed by QSC, Klark, BSS, Symetrix, Valley, Sabine, Peavey and BagEnd INFRA.

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            • #7
              Thanks guys. Yea, after posting it occurred to me that putting like units together would likely be the best option sound wise. The cabs are fairly similar in appearance and, like you say abzurd, I'll bet most folks wouldn't notice anyway. I'm still going to A/B them this weekend just to satisfy my curiosity as much as anything else.

              Tomm, That might work but it's still 74' to the wall directly in front of the stage so I'm thinking keeping those cabs high as well to project over the crowd (these things are apparently very well attended) might be needed. I also want to keep them as close together as possible I think. However, we'll be setting up early in the day and will have plenty of time to experiment and think things through. Thanks for the input.
              ...dave

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              • #8
                How about pairing the K12's on one side and the DXR's on the other? That should put all of the differences in a L & R config at worst making a stereo effect.
                www.RunningSound.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by scharris_99 View Post
                  How about pairing the K12's on one side and the DXR's on the other? That should put all of the differences in a L & R config at worst making a stereo effect.
                  Yea, that's exactly what I meant -- though apparently not stated very clearly <grin>.
                  ...dave

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                  • #10
                    The right answer would be use only one set of loudspeakers or a "matched set"
                    Besides the issue AH speaks of you have frequency response differences and sensitivity differences.
                    You have an apple on one stick and an orange on the other. Use one or the other.

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                    • #11
                      With powered speakers it's easy to match relative levels, the other stuff not so easy to impossible.
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pro Sound Guy View Post
                        The right answer would be use only one set of loudspeakers or a "matched set"
                        Besides the issue AH speaks of you have frequency response differences and sensitivity differences.
                        You have an apple on one stick and an orange on the other. Use one or the other.
                        I do hear ya PSG. More legitimate options are to rent four PRX12s from a local HC forumite or even just two DXR12s from my local music store but it's the old "This five-hour gig (with announcements/raffles interspersed) doesn't pay much to start with and once split eight ways....". I do also understand that there are more issues over the entire frequency and volume range than can be easily detected by a simple A/B test in my garage this weekend. Yup, we're pushing the old "have enough rig for the gig" adage for sure. I'll see what the band says at rehearsal this weekend.
                        ...dave

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by agedhorse View Post
                          With powered speakers it's easy to match relative levels, the other stuff not so easy to impossible.
                          Understood -- I could run stereo and then have a GEQ on each stack but I'm not saying that would even start to address the issues you are referring to.
                          ...dave

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                          • #14
                            So the event was last Saturday and everything went very well. As suggested we paired both DXR12s on one side and both K12s on the other. We finished setting up in this public venue at noon and with showtime at 70 I had ample time to pink the room and compare the two stacks (the 20 or so vendors in the room setting up didn't complain about the pink). I ran one speaker from one stack and recorded the FFT display in AudioTools on my iPad and then did the same with the other stack. The two traces (green and gold) were pretty similar but certainly not flat (note: the blue trace in this first graph was the ambient level with the pink off)



                            Then I adjusted the GEQ on each side resulting in:


                            I'm not claiming this is a robust or definitive analysis but it did at least suggest (confirm?) that the two speakers were relatively similar from the start and I was able to substantially flatten the response in that particular room. The system sounded very good and the band, audience, and the organizers were very pleased with the results.
                            ...dave

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