Vocals-only PA for small band

[MongrolMan]

My band has no PA system at the moment but we are getting more gig offers that require us to invest. Two guitarists each have a 350w guitar amp and our bassist has a 300w amp. We figure that we only need a PA to use for 4 vocal mics and 1 kick mic. This set up would only be needed for small gigs in bars with 150 people or less. When we have bigger gigs, we hire a sound guy for $250.

 

We already have an unpowered mixer and plenty of SM58's but we are lost on what we should do for the speakers. What do you guys think?

 

I was suggested by a few locals that two 250w powered speakers would be great along with at least one powered monitor. Does this sound right to you?

[Pine Apple Slim]

I really like my Mackie SRM450s. Plenty loud, plenty of bass for just voc, ac guitar, and kick, and really clean and hifi sounding. We use 2 of those on sticks and a Peavey PV14 mixer. I thought they sounded way better than the cheaper Mackie Thump series and were worth the extra $$. For monitors we use a cheapo Phonic powered mixer and 4 cheapo Kustom monitors. So far its been all we need fro crowds from 50-200 people.

 

 

[Comoxsam]

Google site search "small band PA" and similar phrases and you will find an endless amount of info on the topic on this site and on the internet in general. I'm currently building a PA for my band as well.

 

It does depend on the style of music and how loud you all play too. Judging by your amps I'm guessing LOUD.

 

I'm going with two powered mains and 1 sub. Yorkville EF500P mains and a LS801P sub. You can check out my "Stuck in the PA buying vortex" thread.

 

Be careful PA building is addictive!

[dboomer]

Just so you are aware ... Adding kick to the system likely ups the requirements by a factor of 4 or more. That is how much more difficult adding low frequency material to the PA is. Btw ... What the hell do your guitarists need 350 watts for?

[monthlymixcd]

If he's willing to mix you knowing that there are 2x350W guitar amps and 1x300W bass amp in the mix... pay that sound guy you mentioned $250 for EVERY gig and be done with it. That's a bargain for someone that has enough PA to adequately provide FOH for your gear/type of music. (Unless he's not providing adequate PA, of course.)

[cappttenron]

smiley-lol

 

They are a spinal tap cover band need guitar amps that go to 11.

[Shaster]

350 watt guitar amps - what an odd number. Sounds like something from long ago.

 

My suggestion: two powered speakers for mains, two for monitors and one sub. Place a bucket of earplugs on stage and you're done.

 

I guess you could get away with one monitor if you only have one singer, but you will need a sub if you're going to mic kick and play as loud as I think you are.

[Pro Sound Guy]

Budget?

 

[Craig Vecchione]

I hope those guitarists know that the gain and volume turn counterclockwise too!

 

I agree that the Mackie SRM450 would work well. The Electro-Voice ZLX12P and 15P are outstanding bargains. Three of these and a small mixer (Peavey, Yamaha, Allen & Heath Zed) will get you off and running.

 

Heed what dboomer wrote about adding kick to the mix...you really need subs and a hefty rig to properly do that. I commonly get the "well we just want the beater click" line when people put kick in a small PA, but that doesn't really cut it. You're either in, or out, in IMHO.

[WynnD]

Just so you are aware ... Adding kick to the system likely ups the requirements by a factor of 4 or more. That is how much more difficult adding low frequency material to the PA is. Btw ... What the hell do your guitarists need 350 watts for?

 

I have seen guitarist's gigging with 35 watts and sounding just great for a crowd of 150 indoors. 300+ watts can be an insurmountable obstacle to adding a keyboard player. (OK, you probably don't want a keyboard player, but do you want gigs?

[mkfs9]

ATM guitarist uses a 15 watt yes 15. Tiny terror by Orange. Sounds great miked up. 350 never. Stage volume must be horrendous. Rcf powered cabs are better than the mackie's if buying newer ones. Italian made. The old mackies were better when they shared components with Rcf.

[Vito Corleone]

I have seen guitarist's gigging with 35 watts and sounding just great for a crowd of 150 indoors. 300+ watts can be an insurmountable obstacle to adding a keyboard player. ?

Not disagreeing that 350w guitar amps seem excessive, but I don't see what that has to do with adding a keyboard player. Keyboard players usually use amps too!

[wesg]

You could always plug a Hammond into yet another 350W guitar amp. That'd be great. Poor John Lord was stuck using 200W Marshalls in stadiums!

[Pro Sound Guy]

JBLVRX will work with a JBL dual 18" sub under each one.

Nexo has a nice portable system that would work well for you as well.

RCF has a great line

Reinkus Heinz has a great line

Turbo Sound has a great line

Meyer has a portable line real dam nice

QSC stuff is always dependble and a step above for the money.

 

[nousername]

ATM guitarist uses a 15 watt yes 15. Tiny terror by Orange. Sounds great miked up. 350 never. Stage volume must be horrendous. Rcf powered cabs are better than the mackie's if buying newer ones. Italian made. The old mackies were better when they shared components with Rcf.

 

Guitar one in my band has a Tiny Terror plugged into a Marshall 1x12. It sounds amazing. So light and it's easy to manage volume.

[Shaster]

I play and have heard many guitarists using the 15 watt Blues Junior. Never a problem being heard even without micing. But.... way back in the day, I used a preamp/power amp set up. Had a Marshall JMP1, going to a 100 watt per side ADA power amp, going into a little dual Marshall 1922 cab. If I didn't point the cab across stage or basically straight up, our sound tech wouldn't talk to me for a day or so. Loud doesn't start to cover it. And it beamed like a death ray. I sold a nice little Mesa Boogie to "step up" to that 80's monstrosity. The keyboard player was even louder than I was. Silly stuff.

 

I just realized I've still got that stuff. Time to pull it out, put my shop phones on and annoy the neighbours!

[monthlymixcd]

I've written about my hella loud rack rig here before... 2 efficient 212 GenzBenz stereo cabs driven by an MV982 stereo power amp (RT922 RealTubeII preamp and RT921 RealTube Reverb, Rocktron Replifex, DMC GCX Rack switcher and a ton of pedals in the rack as well. Still have the RT922... just can't let it go.) If memory serves that was still only just a 160W rig and even just run at half volume with a sound-proofed basement rehearsal space still had the cops show up at our band practice several times.

 

Several years ago I also experimented with "detuned cabs" and even with just the little Ceriatone 36W RP head I built... a Marshall 1960A cab I loaded with a 102dB sensitivity Celestion Century Neo (NOT the "Vintage" model) and Eminence Man-O-War speakers (in the top... leaving the bottom "unloaded") yielded deafening volume that after 20 min. of playing left my ears ringing for 24 hours. The lesson I learned? With inefficient speakers I can make your 350W amp sound like my 36-watter... and vice versa.