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Reverb Unit--->Mixer


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Hi all. Noob question here...I am using an Eventide Space pedal for reverb through the Aux send/return on my mixer. I have the input/output 1 (left) of the Eventide run through the Aux 1 send/returns on the mixer with TRS cables and the input/output 2 (right) of the Eventide through Aux 2 send/receives on the mixer with TRS cables. Both are set to line level.

Here is my question, when I click the bypass button on the Eventide, the sound through the mixer/speakers is a terrible thin, tinny metallic sound. It seems OK when the Eventide is not bypassed. Is this normal? If not, what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!!

-Count

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Find your description a little confusing.. Take an aux out of the desk into input on pedal. Then take the return and input into a spare channel on the desk. Making sure all aux on the return is turned off.

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Please provide a link to your pedal. Please provide the make and model number of your mixer. Please tell us if this is for some wild vocal effect or for basic genral reverb.

 

Just from your description, it doesn't sound like your mixer and/or pedal is happy sending and returning two different aux signals, especially if you are using TRS, on a guitar pedal. Guitar pedals are not usually the right tool for a global PA effect. To repeat AH - read your manual to see if you're routing correctly. Or ask more questions here.

 

Does your pedal have true bypass? If not, there could be some issues there.

 

I also agree with mkfs9 that using only one side of the pedal and returning it to a channel might result in better results. Again, if you're returning to a channel; AUX SIGNALS ON THAT CHANNEL OFF!!!

...

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You can feed the FX with only one aux out - just make sure that the FX unit is set to mono in/stereo out.

 

 

When "muted", an FX unit will do one of two things:

 

1) Go silent - as the word mute implies. And as one would want with a common parallel connection on a mixer - aux out and back in. (And of course in this application the FXs mix control should be set at 100% wet.)

 

2) Pass the signal through without processing (as one would want if the unit were inserted on a channel or a bus). (This passthrough signal has a bit of delay and sometimes is polarity inverted.) (This seems to be very common. I hate it.)

 

Your FX is doing #2 (pun not intended, but appropriate). What you are hearing when you "mute" the FX is the main signal mixed with the FX's passthrough signal. Owing to the delay (and possible polarity inversion) there are frequency cancellations that sound make it like crap - as you have noticed.

 

Unless your FX has the option to truly mute when in mute mode, you need to either mute the aux send or the channels to which the FX is being returned instead of using the mute on the FX.

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Thanks for the replies. My use is for basic or overall reverb.

The mixer: Mackie Onyx 1640 (not i) http://www.mackie.com/products/discontinued/onyx1640/

The reverb: Eventide Space http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/StompBoxes/Eventide_Space.aspx

Is mkfs9's way the best way to go?

 

I can neither confirm nor deny TimmyP's assessment of his #2 scenario (delay and possible polarity issues), but I can say that guitar pedals are usually meant to be in series, whether that's in front of the amp or in the effects loop. That's why I was asking about true bypass. Using a guitar pedal as a global effect means that you are adding the effect (or bypassed signal) to an unprocessed signal. Essentially two "points of information", or three if you are using both sides of the pedal. It could aslo be that if you are not going 100% wet on your pedal you are introducing too much pedal signal into your PA. Then when bypassed it sounds like gack - which it might anyway, but you can't hear it because of the effects

 

Maybe with just one side of the pedal and running it 100% wet, you won't experience the sound you have heard, or maybe it's just the wrong tool for the job.

 

If money isn't a major obstacle, buying an FX unit specifically intended for PA use would seem to be be the way to go.

 

Failing that, returning the effects through a channel, and then muting or zeroing the channel manually, might also do the trick.

 

 

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Thank you for the info. The reason I hooked it up the original way was because I did read the manual and hooked it up according to the page 13 diagram: http://www.eventide.com/~/media/file...ug_142335.ashx

 

So, to be clear...until I can buy a dedicated reverb unit, my best route for the Eventide Space is Aux send to reverb input 1 and reverb output 1 back to a mixer channel and then set the pedal to mono in/stereo out with 100% wet? Also, are my TRS cables OK or do I need something else?

 

Also, just curious as to why a channel return is better than an Aux return?

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Thank you for the info. The reason I hooked it up the original way was because I did read the manual and hooked it up according to the page 13 diagram: http://www.eventide.com/~/media/file...ug_142335.ashx

 

So, to be clear...until I can buy a dedicated reverb unit, my best route for the Eventide Space is Aux send to reverb input 1 and reverb output 1 back to a mixer channel and then set the pedal to mono in/stereo out with 100% wet? Also, are my TRS cables OK or do I need something else?

 

Also, just curious as to why a channel return is better than an Aux return?

 

If it's set to mono, wouldn't you go mono in mono out?

 

I can't speak for the others, but I'm suggesting a channel return because you can grab the fader to mute the effect and you can also EQ the effect - roll off some highs and/or lows. If your aux return has a dedicated fader (haven't looked at the Onyx) you could do the same thing with that.

 

While your board will be happy with TRS, your pedal might not be - read the manual, or email the company. Also, pay attention to your bypass. It seems that you can select different kinds of bypass. And make sure your in/outs are set to line.

 

Back to the mono thing - I think folks have been suggesting mono just to simplify, and perhaps eliminate another potential point of failure. Be warned however, that sometimes summing to mono can also create another set of problems.

 

Set things up at home and make sure it all works there.

 

 

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I use a Lexicon MX400 or MX200 with a similar board (Onyx 24-4). We're just low on channel strips. I have reverb and delay on aux 5 and 6, with the aux 5 and 6 sends going to the effects unit with TRS cables (not inserts), and the output of the effects unit going to the stereo returns with separate TRS cables. I use the stereo returns in mono, because my FOH is mono.

 

So, I use the stereo returns, but a channel return would work too. One other advantage to using a full channel strip is better routing capabilities. For example, I play one song on keys with a delay. I can't route the delay to both my monitor and the drummer's monitor..it's an either-or with my setup. So I send it to the drummer and listen really carefully to the lead singer's monitor for that song. We need to clearly hear the delay in the monitors because it sets the tempo.

 

The "thin sound" when bypassed makes me wonder if the pedal is inverting phase or something.

 

Anyhow, why are you using it in bypass when you are trying to use it as general effects unit? Just turn down the master aux send knob if you want to kill all the reverb. Your board may even have an aux mute button (mine does).

 

Wes

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...to the effects unit with TRS cables (not inserts)' date=' and the output of the effects unit going to the stereo returns with separate TRS cables. Wes[/quote']

 

Exactely how I am running it, TRS (not insert) from Left output on pedal to Aux 1 input, then returned from the Aux 1 return. Same with the right to Aux 2. The board has a dedicated Aux return knob. The Eventide pedal has dual reverbs so I thought I could set the amount of reverb differently for each channel.

 

The "thin sound" when bypassed makes me wonder if the pedal is inverting phase or something.

 

Anyhow, why are you using it in bypass when you are trying to use it as general effects unit? Just turn down the master aux send knob if you want to kill all the reverb. Your board may even have an aux mute button (mine does).

 

Wes

 

I don't plan to bypass the unit, I was more curious to the "thin" sound being an issue. It doesn't sound thin when the pedal is active.

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