Members jahlljw Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 Firstly, thanks in advance for any and all help. I'm in a duo that perform w/predominantly electronic music hardware (some vocals, drum machine and synths into a Yamaha MG166C mixer). We're looking to begin playing live, but rehearsing is step one. In translating our studio setup to a rehearsal/live monitoring rig, I'm a bit out of my element when it comes to what we'll need. I was considering simply getting a Yamaha P2500S power amp and a couple of Club Series floor monitors, but will this be enough for rehearsing? Am I overlooking something here? Looking forward to your suggestions, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think you'll get better performance and more reliability by going with powered speakers. Also much easier to setup and dial in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 What Don said. Seriously, if you're asking those questions, powered (active) speakers are your answer. Now, as to how much to spend -- that remains an interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 If your budget is low you might check out the EV's ZLX 12" or 15" active cabs are affordable for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think you'll get better performance and more reliability by going with powered speakers. Also much easier to setup and dial in. You know that everyone says that, but having had both powered and passive speakers, the passive are the easier setup. (three cables instead of the 9 cables the powered speakers require.) I'm pretty sure that I can improve the powered speaker situation by building custom power/signal cables for each stack. (Ideally with attached velcro cable ties to hide the cable behind the poles.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 In the past I've felt that it's faster to set up passive speakers, but I don't know if it's any easier. Many of the newer powered speakers have rudimentary EQ, and are sometimes presweetened, so the gack is largely out of them. That can make things much easier. But let's see what's really faster... two powered speakers with two separate mixes equals two power cables from an AC receptacle, and two line cables from the board. A passive rig equals taking the lids of a rack and storing them somewhere, one power cable to the power amp, two cables from the board to the power amp (or EQ) and two speaker cables to the speakers. Then there's fiddling around with a GEQ, possibly a limiter, and hoping your board has a really good 100hz filter. Now, unless you're running a box mixer (which was not the OP's case) it's sounding like powered speakers are faster and easier to set up - at least in the lower production world, with a less experienced tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 Plus you are pretty much guaranteed your limiter will be set up properly, keeping you from pushing the speakers too hard (on purpose or by accident). The GEQ is useful for monitors on either powered or passive systems, though...especially in small rooms. Notch out those ringy frequencies. But, depending on the speaker, you won't have to do too much adjustment beyond that. Wynn, why do your powered speakers require three cables each? Mine only need two. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 Maybe he is linking them power cable, xlr in and xlr out to another cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'm with Wynn passive has advantages powered doesn't. Like remote administration, you can tweak passive from your rack, how slick is that? Now I suppose you could argue if they are being used as monitors all you gotta do is flip em over and adjust em but live wouldn't that look a little awkward? Re limiters most amps have them built in as well. # 2 if you do any tweaking on powered boxes you have to lower your stand adjust and re up your speakers on stands (unless your 6'5 or better this would seem awkward to adjust live too right?) I'm sorry I just don't see that convenience always outweighs quality and "single seat administration" Side note, those new presonus powered speakers wireless remote capability - Very slick. I think they may have finally put the nail in the coffin for passive after all, time will tell, after all wireless can fail too. To the original poster, what is your budget? That may help in determining a recommendation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basschaplain Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 It depends on what you are ok with hearing. In the past, I've practiced and performed (vocals and lead guitar) through a guitar speaker (and happy to have it to use). Just starting out, you might anticipate using the same equipment for practice as your gigs.Powered speakers can simplify your life and get you a quality sound pretty easily. Especially if you are new to running sound and/or don't intend on learning the deeper intricacies of sound theory and mechanics of individual speaker dynamics, etc. on a professional level. But if you get a good deal on an amp and non-powered speakers, well, bands have done well on non-powered speakers for quite a while now.There is equipment out there for anyone's budget. Recognizing, of course, that quality, reliability, service, weight, etc. tends to improve with cost. But, really, powered or non-powered, get the best your can honestly afford right now (don't use credit cards), find venues appropriate for beginners, and get out there and entertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 The OP's monitor question was specific to rehearsal...............Did you have a different thought when it came to performing live? What are you using for mics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 The OP's monitor question was specific to rehearsal...............Did you have a different thought when it came to performing live? What are you using for mics? I sounds like he wants the rehearsal speakers to work for his eventual live PA or monitor rig.. but rehearsing is step one. In translating our studio setup to a rehearsal/live monitoring rig, For just a rehearsal set up, I personally would find some used and abused passive gear that was discounted very close to free, BUT in the OP's case, I feel that he should go active. It should serve him better, even with resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 You know that everyone says that, but having had both powered and passive speakers, the passive are the easier setup. Consider apples-to-apples setup including bi-amping. Bi-ampped self contained systems are going to perform way better dollar for dollar in almost every case. Just tape your signal and power cables together (or buy pre made siamese cables). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted April 14, 2014 Members Share Posted April 14, 2014 Don't confuse "faster" with "easier" and don't discount designing the entire system. For most folks there's so much benefit to going powered if you own nothing and especially if you don't know much, it's simply no contest, IMO. You don't even need any outboard gear if you go with a small digital mixer. No amps and no outboard gear means no racks. so there you go, a mixer and a couple of speakers. No real point in debating ease of setup as there's just not much to it. You'll sound better right out of the gate with speakers that have .... electronic crossover, speaker EQ, limiting (probably multi-band), bi-amping. If your serious about playing out, get something of quality now that can be used as a main or monitor, even if it's just a single speaker. Then get more of the same when you play out. This way you have redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Consider apples-to-apples setup including bi-amping. Bi-ampped self contained systems are going to perform way better dollar for dollar in almost every case. Just tape your signal and power cables together (or buy pre made siamese cables). Some of my passive speakers are set up as bi-amp and yes it's pretty good. (The initial setup took some time, but after that it's gone quite nicely.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 I sometimes use powered rcf cabs but having power and signal together is not always a good thing. I have power cables 3 mtrs just enough to get to the base of a stand. Depends where your desk/ mixeer is located. Can't see the point running a power cable 20\30 ft to the other side of stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Consider apples-to-apples setup including bi-amping. Bi-ampped self contained systems are going to perform way better dollar for dollar in almost every case. Just tape your signal and power cables together (or buy pre made siamese cables). That's what I did. Tape your power cable and xlr and you have one run and if you go powered IMO you will have redundancy. Remember you will need a new IEC power cable the same length as your XLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 I use powered cables taped to xlrs and have had no problems on 25ft runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 15, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Firstly, thanks in advance for any and all help. I'm in a duo that perform w/predominantly electronic music hardware (some vocals, drum machine and synths into a Yamaha MG166C mixer). We're looking to begin playing live, but rehearsing is step one. In translating our studio setup to a rehearsal/live monitoring rig, I'm a bit out of my element when it comes to what we'll need. I was considering simply getting a Yamaha P2500S power amp and a couple of Club Series floor monitors, but will this be enough for rehearsing? Am I overlooking something here? Looking forward to your suggestions, James Hi James, Yes, the Yamaha power amp and Club speakers will work just fine for rehearsal, and will make a good monitoring system for a live stage setup. It's solid gear that'll serve you well and retain resale value if you decide to go a different route later. The guys may have gotten a little off track debating passive vs active speakers, but it's all good info that'll eventually make sense as you begin to understand more about speaker systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hi James sorry to bring this up but the amp will be about 400 dollar and two speakers about 700 dollars. For just slightly more you can buy the Yamaha DXR 12s which will produce more bass than a Yamaha club 12 inch monitor and will sound better too. I own the DXR8s and have listened to all 4 models. A friend still uses the club series for his open mic night and while I always thought the sounded good for the money I am sure the DXR sounds better. If you already own the amp then that will drive you to purchase passive speakers but if not I think the Yamaha DXR is a great bang for the buck. Even the DXR10 will have more low output than a club 12 inch. So unless you are planning on getting a subwoofer soon you should think about that. The DXR15 Al Poulin has stated has great low end performance too. Apples to apples the DXR12 output is 132db while the club 12 is about 125. That is a pretty big difference in volume levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Can't see the point running a power cable 20\30 ft to the other side of stage. The "point" is that then all your AC is coming from the same service. And while this isn't always important it is a "best practice" to help avoid noise problems and ground issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Good point. Not that common a problem here in the uk though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 The thing I will say for the club speakers is they will take a lot of road abuse. You will have to be more careful with powered speakers because of the switches on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 The thing I will say for the club speakers is they will take a lot of road abuse. You will have to be more careful with powered speakers because of the switches on the back. Could be, depending on the powered speaker and how you transport them. Of course with the Clubs, you would have to be careful with the power amp, or get a rack, or carry the amp in it's cardboard box. The no rack transport method has it's own pitfalls. I don't like seeing exposed power amps on stage or in rehearsal - they invariably become a table top for pens, paper, tape or worse yet, drinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 15, 2014 Members Share Posted April 15, 2014 Good point. Not that common a problem here in the uk though. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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