Micing up a Mesa Boogie

[Two of Seven]

So what mics and techniques do you all use when you have to mic a guitar cab? A guy I work with doesn’t like the sound out front when I direct out and eq. But I don't like the sound (so far) when I mic. Running direct out is a little sterile/electronic on the top end but other than that - much more clear and uniform overall.

 

Tried close micing with SM57, Beta 58, Senn e835 - both hanging over top of cab and with stand pointed in - on center and off center. Always seems to have some variation of a weird "canny" sort of sound.

 

Standing 5 or 6 feet away the amp sounds fine. Guitar player feels sound is closer to what he hears when I use any mic.

 

[Pro Sound Guy]

The guitar guys I know and have known "choose" a loudspeaker/cab combination that gives the sound they desire out of their rig if it be tube or transistor.

Most I have known and know all use tube amps. These guys swap out loudspeakers and experiment with cabinets to achieve their entire sound.

When you place a mic on the loudspeaker your job is to accurately reproduce the sound from that source to the sound system.

I have found the Audix i5 to be a sweet mic for Guitar rigs.

If the source sounds good you should have no issue getting a great sound with the mics you listed.

There is many a pro guitar player that would give you an evil eye if you suggested running a D.I. signal instead of putting a mic on their loudspeaker/s.

 

[agedhorse]

Going direct takes a little work with eq, maybe some compression and maybe even a little effects. DI can indeed give you a clear sound and if that's what you are after, I suggest spending some time learning what makes it work. I designed 2 guitar amps with a built in balanced DI out, compete with cabinet simulation filters and they were well received for those who were after that kind of sound, but especially for consistent, repeatable tone within the context of a band.

 

If you do a lot of heavy overdrive material, it's a little harder getting that to sound as convincing but again, listen to it in context of the band mix and it may be just fine.

 

Personally, I tend to mic maybe 80% of the time but I also do gigs where I take a DI out of the guitar rig with just as satisfactory results. It really depends.

[Tomm Williams]

My technique is pretty straightforward. Shure SM59 or Beyer M201 just off center and against the grill. I have yet to be disappointed. Maybe try mic'ing front and back?

[Two of Seven]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Perhaps I do just need a better suited mic. I have one of those old Peavey Equalized Direct Interface Di boxes around somewhere that taps off the speaker line. Maybe I'll give that a swing.

 

Fortunately I get along well with the guitar player - we have a friendly disagreement on his sound in the PA. The only time he hears it out front is when he walks off stage and sticks his head in front of the stack as he is not wireless. I explained to him that would tend to give him a much brighter sound than most of the audience gets but he's still hung up on the "electronic" character of the direct out sound. It definitely is clearer going direct than what he hears on stage - but to me that's a good thing. I just apply eq to roll of excess highs and think I get a very usable sound.

 

My problem so far with the mic sound is this weird coloration - hard to describe exactly - a tin canny sound - almost as if some type of ambient effect is applied. Nothing else in the rooms or mixes has this problem. At five feet his rig sounds ok (and I don't really want to stick my head much closer than that.) I'm starting to wonder if what I don't like is just what his speaker sounds like at one inch?

 

I foresee a little him / me sound clinic session in my future.

[dedmeet]

Sennheiser e906. Get one. I put it just off center of the speaker and it sounds great on just about any amp.

[twostone]

Maybe try both DI and mic if you got the spare channels. Which is how I roll with my band with my guitarist Egnator amp has onboard recording DI with decent speaker sim and Senns e609 in front of the speaker cab then blend to taste. Same with DI bass and SM57 in front of slightly overdriven bass amp cab since the DI lacks the slightly overdriven sound.

[Crownman]

Sennheiser e906. Get one. I put it just off center of the speaker and it sounds great on just about any amp.

 

Completely agree with the 609. It's worked great on every amp I've used it on.

[soulx]

Decent quality dynamic mic (57, 609, 421, whatev), towards edge of cone pointed inwards, roughly 1 inch away from grill . If he doesn't like that sound, ask what recorded cab sound he loves (you're probably already doing it), then say: "Let's try that!"

[ariboiangiu]

This past Sunday I JUST did I gig where the other gtr player had a boogie (express 5:50) miked with a seinheiser e609. When I went out on the dance floor it sounded incredible.

[RoadRanger]

The Behringer GI-100 DI does a great job of emulating a Marshall 4x12 cab (sounds like carp on a HotRod Deluxe though ) and the emulated outputs on some solid-state Marshalls sound fine too. When using a mic I do prefer a transformerless mic on guitar cabs but it's not that hard to make an SM-57 sound OK either. If the guitarist wants a mic on his cab it's really not worth hassling over - and a mic is generally easier to set up. OTOH on today's micro-stages a DI takes up less space unless you're into hanging mics from the combo's handle from their cords - which can work OK, especially with a 609 but we did that with SM-57's in the bad old days too.

[sibyrnes]

Guitar amps are usually pretty simple to mic, I just use a 57 and it sounds fine. I will use whatever mic the guitarist has if he asks - I really haven't noticed that much difference. Maybe experiment with different placement and see if that helps. Also check your polarity of the mic/channel you are using for guitar. If you are having trouble getting an accurate sound from the guitar amp, I have to question what is going on with the rest of your system?

[dedmeet]

Just a follow-up on my earlier post - I prefer the Sennheiser e906, but the cheaper e609 also works well. In jazz ensembles I like to use my EV Cardinal.

[b_f_c_99]

Its been my experience that the sound you hear 5 or 10 feet in the room isn't even close to what the sound is at mic level. Probably has alot to do with the cabinet construction, the room acoustics ect. I've got a POD HD and it is very interesting running it direct into a PA, changing the cabinet and mic's has a huge effect on the sound that comes out. To my ears the SM57 is a terrible guitar cabinet mic, at least through the POD emulation but really its about the same when I put a real 57 on a real cabinet as well. Just sort of sounds kinda of tin cannish and fizzy.

[Two of Seven]

........... If you are having trouble getting an accurate sound from the guitar amp' date=' I have to question what is going on with the rest of your system?[/quote']

 

I can guarantee nothing wrong is going on in the rest of my system.

 

GL2200 > Symetrix Jupiter8 > IPR2 7500/CE4000 > Fulcrum Acoustic DX1565/JBL dual 18s.

 

Every other source from vocals to keyboards to drums to bass sounds just like what they are putting into the system.

 

There is some odd overtone/coloration I get only when micing his cab... I am confident we will figure it out though once we have time to do a little A/B session.

 

I just wanted to hear what folks on this forum commonly do, guitar cab micing wise.

 

At this point I think I may need a different mic/flatter mic ........ OR...... some thing is being revealed in close micing that we are not hearing in just the stage volume.

 

Thanks for all the ideas so far.

[Rob_H]

I find with my Triple Recto it sounds best about 1/2 way between axis & surround with the mic slightly angled in (about 15 degrees) not direct at the speaker with the MESA cabs; I use a 58 and the positioning is on the angled top driver in the 4x10 so it is angled off axis 2 different ways. This is with the sealed cab and Vintage Celestian loaded. This is with crunch on the triple recto head but don't find much downside on cleaner settings either. For whatever reason, I can't get what I am looking for hanging a mic like I can on any of my Marshalls or my PV heads with the same cab(s) and when I have run the Boogie with my Mustane Marshall cabs I still have to do the same mic arrangement. I often run 2 heads into 2 different cabs in a stack and if I bring the recto I need to run 2 separate mics so I can position different for the recto than for the JCM or Plexi etc where I just hang it.

[Shaster]

 

 

At this point I think I may need a different mic/flatter mic ........ OR...... some thing is being revealed in close micing that we are not hearing in just the stage volume.

 

Thanks for all the ideas so far.

 

I was just about to suggest this when I see that you posted it yourself. Sometimes a recording or a good PA will show up flaws or peculiarities in a guitar rig.

 

I would be tempted to just live with it - after all it's guitar, what do you want! That's coming from a guitar player.

 

BTW for the poll: I generally use a 57, but have fond memories of the original 609's.