Members StratGuy22 Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 A buddy is claiming his guitar cable is directional, and if he plugs it in the other way, his guitar sounds "darker" I say he's nuts. What say you? http://www.procosound.com/cables/instrument-guitar/lifelines-instrument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I emailed them once back when I had hotmail and they explained the directional thing but I still don't understand it. Something to do with using XLR cable and one end being wired differently. I don't remember anything about a resistor being mentioned. The cable says "Dynamik" on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I believe those cables have a telescoping ground. it is a two conductor cable, one is hot and the other is ground. The shield is connected at one end only so the cable is labeled for direction so you can keep all similar telescoping ground cables going in the same direction. This can sometimes lower noise. But it doesn't have anything to do with the sound. Wire is wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 The lifted end is (or possibly can be) helpful when there is another ground supplied to the guitar (otherwise it won't work). This is a pretty unusual condition ime. I have also seen cables with filter components installed within the connector. These also are labeled directional. In all cases, the cable itself is not directional. When it is claimed that the copper is directional, it's time to get out the snake oil repellant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I figured it was just marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm a hydrologist so I've always assumed that as long as the guitar was higher than the amp or stagebox current would flow just fine. To that end, I've always been careful not to stay plugged in when I step off a four foot stage in fear that flow would reverse and I'd start draining the mixer. ..dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm a hydrologist so I've always assumed that as long as the guitar was higher than the amp or stagebox current would flow just fine. To that end, I've always been careful not to stay plugged in when I step off a four foot stage in fear that flow would reverse and I'd start draining the mixer. ..dave Absolutely! You wouldn't want to start an electron siphon. Given the wrong circumstances it could drain our entire electrical grid (not to mention turning the club into a human sized bug zapper). Sage advice my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 The difference between pipe and wire is that wire comes pre-filled with electrons. stuff one in and one comes right out the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Other than some cables having some built in FET preamps, I cant imagine why he would have different tones. That cable does have two different pieces of shrink wrap on it so its had one end replaced.The end with the arrows may have been the original.The only time I've seen markings like that are on cables that are for splitter cables that use a TRS jackat one end and a stereo split Y plugs at the other end.The cables are designed for stereo keyboards or Rick O Sound stereo guitar applications. .It may be someone used this kind of stereo cable and botched connecting the two Center conductors together to make it mono on both ends. I still don't see that making the sound darker other than maybe having a bit more capacitance with one hot wire going nowhere. . The other possibility may be the plug shape doesn't make as good of a contact with the amp or guitars jack contacts.Many amps have a switching jack that grounds the hot wire when you unplug.I've seen some plug tips that are thinner or don't align with the tip contact properly and the groundmay not fully open. Combine that with allot of dirt and smoke and the dirt can act as a capacitoron the jack. Cleaning the jacks or adjusting them with a pair of needle nose pliers usually fixes this simple problem. If its a plastic PC mount sealed switch on the amp, it's best to leave it alone. Cleaning makes the plasticdry out an crack. Amps with pairs of jacks can have a High/Low gain resistor too. If the jack switch isn't opening completelyit may be the cause of the amp sounding better using one end of the cable only. Its because the tip is shaped differently,and doesn't contact properly, not because of any Voodoo BS with the wire itself. Other than that, the cable may have a flex issue that's only noticed when its in a particular position.High impedance cables are designed for signal levels only of less then a volt. Someone whose used a cableas a speaker cable fries the insulator and the cable can become noisy, microphonic, crackly, intermittent shorts,intermittent increases in capacitance/resistance (partial shorts) , In short a flucked up cord that's useless for fidelity. Best thing your buddy can do is try another cord. They're cheap enough. If he still has the same issuehe may want to ease off the amp gain and get his ears checked. High Z Cords are all bi directional and have no differences in tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocktone Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Absolutely! You wouldn't want to start an electron siphon. Given the wrong circumstances it could drain our entire electrical grid (not to mention turning the club into a human sized bug zapper). Sage advice my friend. I aviod these issue by installing a check valve on the output of my guitar that way no signal can back up into my guitar causing a backfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 The difference between pipe and wire is that wire comes pre-filled with electrons. stuff one in and one comes right out the other end. I like that analogy! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Other than some cables having some built in FET preamps, I cant imagine why he would have different tones. That cable does have two different pieces of shrink wrap on it so its had one end replaced. The end with the arrows may have been the original. The only time I've seen markings like that are on cables that are for splitter cables that use a TRS jack at one end and a stereo split Y plugs at the other end. The cables are designed for stereo keyboards or Rick O Sound stereo guitar applications. . It may be someone used this kind of stereo cable and botched connecting the two Center conductors together to make it mono on both ends. I still don't see that making the sound darker other than maybe having a bit more capacitance with one hot wire going nowhere. . The other possibility may be the plug shape doesn't make as good of a contact with the amp or guitars jack contacts. Many amps have a switching jack that grounds the hot wire when you unplug. I've seen some plug tips that are thinner or don't align with the tip contact properly and the ground may not fully open. Combine that with allot of dirt and smoke and the dirt can act as a capacitor on the jack. Cleaning the jacks or adjusting them with a pair of needle nose pliers usually fixes this simple problem. If its a plastic PC mount sealed switch on the amp, it's best to leave it alone. Cleaning makes the plastic dry out an crack. Amps with pairs of jacks can have a High/Low gain resistor too. If the jack switch isn't opening completely it may be the cause of the amp sounding better using one end of the cable only. Its because the tip is shaped differently, and doesn't contact properly, not because of any Voodoo BS with the wire itself. Other than that, the cable may have a flex issue that's only noticed when its in a particular position. High impedance cables are designed for signal levels only of less then a volt. Someone whose used a cable as a speaker cable fries the insulator and the cable can become noisy, microphonic, crackly, intermittent shorts, intermittent increases in capacitance/resistance (partial shorts) , In short a flucked up cord that's useless for fidelity. Best thing your buddy can do is try another cord. They're cheap enough. If he still has the same issue he may want to ease off the amp gain and get his ears checked. High Z Cords are all bi directional and have no differences in tone. There are a lot of mis-truths here that only serve to confuse folks who may be trying to understand this. How about we keep this factual? 1. There are so few preamps built into cable connectors that it's more rare than hen's teeth. Besides, there would need to be a TRS connector to provide power on the ring to work well. (There is a way around this but I've never seen it used). 2. Splitter cables (TRS to TS/RS) are generally marked with a tip and ring designator, I have never seen one with arrows. These are commonly used for inserts. Otherwise, simple Y cables have no direction, the application determines if they will or will not work well in a particular use. 3. Dirt and smoke do not act as a capacitor. Properly cleanig plastic housing jacks do not make them crack (unless they are the most horrible parts around 4. High impedance cables are not designed for signal levels of less than a volt. That's ONE application, but many are used in applications of +20dBu or more. (That's ~5 volts) 5. Using a high impedance cable as a speaker cable does not fry the insulator and cause it to get crackly. This is a electromechanical effect cause by triboelectric principles. This is only seen where the source and load impedances are very, very high and the electromechanical effects begin to dominate. It's a form of variable capacitor transducer. There are cables with small filters that are used to add high frequency rolloff (to emulate a long cable with a short one) in pickup applications where impedances are high. This is generally not very common to see. There are plenty of snake oil charmers out there making claims that violate materials science laws of physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted April 3, 2014 Members Share Posted April 3, 2014 The difference between pipe and wire is that wire comes pre-filled with electrons. stuff one in and one comes right out the other end. That's quote-worthy.. philthumb Kinda like makin' sausage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted April 4, 2014 Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 If I understand correctly, electron migration through a conductor is actually fairly slow... so yes, if you're successful in stuffing one in, eventually one comes out the other end. What does transmit through the conductor fairly quickly is the change in energy state of electrons... ie: the flow of the charge... maybe kind-of like beating on the end of a railroad rail... pound a piece of steel into one end hard and long enough, and maybe eventually a piece of steel will fall off the other end, but the transfer of energy from one end of the rail to the other happens relatively much faster (than steel migration through the rail), and the energy is transferred from one end of the rail to the other very efficiently... and likely non directionally... as in it doesn't much matter which end of the rail gets beat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 4, 2014 Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 I think of it like a skipping rope, move one end and down and the wave travels along it, even if the rope itself doesn't actually go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 4, 2014 Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 It all happens very, very fast, like about the speed of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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