Members agedhorse Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 How much labor? Is it all in the same location? Can you leave it set up? What kind of acts? Security? Attendance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Day 1: Pre Party(Friday Night) Est. ~4 hours 3 Line Array Boxes a side 4 Dual 18 Subwoofers 24 Channel Mixer 4 Monitors Amp Racks 6 Mic Stands 6 Vocal Mics Wireless Mics 12 LED Par Cans with Lighting Software Day 2: Main Stage(Saturday) Est. ~4 hours 4 Line Array Boxes Per Side 6 Dual 18 Subwoofers 24 Channel Mixer Amp Racks 8 Mic Stands(more if needed) 8 Vocal Mics 6 Monitors Wireless Mics 14 LED Par Cans 4 Moving Heads Lighting Software Day 3: Main Stage(Sunday) Est. ~4 hours 4 Line Array Boxes Per Side 6 Dual 18 Subwoofers 24 Channel Mixer Amp Racks 8 Mic Stands(more if needed) 8 Vocal Mics 6 Monitors Wireless Mics 14 LED Par Cans 4 Moving Heads Lighting Software What would you charge for this setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 No instrument or drum mics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 How much labor? All my self Is it all in the same location? Friday- no. Sat&sunday- yes Can you leave it set up?- Sat&sun- Partly What kind of acts? - Regional Security?- ME Attendance? 500-1200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Drumers will have their own. I have beta 57s with me at all times, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Myself, I would never do a show like that with a single person. If something goes even a little wrong, you are totally on your own. If you get hurt if sick, whatever, you are in a different kind of trouble. No security? Drummers all have their own mics? IMO this is about as odd as it gets gets for a festival situation. What about stands and cables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Have all the stands and cables. I have drum mics too if they need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 I have a basic formula for figuring quotes: 1) Gear rental: 1% - 2% of the fair market value of the gear involved. Closer to 1% for a low equipment wear & tear event, closer to 2% for "rougher on the gear" events.2) Travel: 50 cents per mile portal to portal for Sprinter van, $1/mile for 20ft. box truck.3) Labor: Somewhere around roughly double what I'm paying my employees. This covers the extra costs of employees above their hourly rate, plus a little cushion for the fact it generally takes longer than advance estimates. I figure my labor in as well, since if I wasn't doing what I do, I'd have to pay someone to do it.4) Out of pocket costs for expendables and special request subrentals (generally the special request subrentals are due to performer insistence on strict adherence to rider specifics). That covers my expenses. I'll add 10% - 20% for business overhead and hopefully some ROI and maybe another 10% - 20% for PITA factor if it exists... although I try to avoid getting into situations that have a high PITA factor. Admittedly my formula has a lot of built-in wiggle-room for judgment calls, but I've found that goes with the territory. Another way to go about it is to charge what the market will bear... and if you're still in business and not upside down in debt in 3 - 5 years, you're in a good market... or you operate frugally... or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Koopdaddy Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 That seems like a lot of work for once person...I would definitely budget in a hired hand at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 I have a simple formula too - $175 per show per 2x18, 25% discount for additional nights if you don't have to move stuff. So $700 + 1050 + 787.5 = $2537.50 philthumb. Flying line arrays by yourself seems a bit ambitious - but if you can do all that solo remind me not to be messin' with yah . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Flying line arrays by yourself seems a bit ambitious - but if you can do all that solo remind me not to be messin' with yah . Depending on the system, I might be as simple as rolling it out of the truck, hook and raise and repeat as necessary... assuming there's something to raise it with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have a simple formula too - $175 per show per 2x18, 25% discount for additional nights if you don't have to move stuff. So $700 + 1050 + 787.5 = $2537.50 philthumb. Flying line arrays by yourself seems a bit ambitious - but if you can do all that solo remind me not to be messin' with yah . Flying isnt hard. Have genie lifts. Systems pretty much plug and play. Arrays are active Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Flying isnt hard. Have genie lifts. Systems pretty much plug and play. Arrays are active but moving the Genie's is not trivial even in and out of the truck it's not a one man job (safely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Can we establish that you are putting in a quote? Or do you have the gig, and already have a fuzzy figure in mind and are now fine tuning it with the buyers. In any case, I'm with AH - don't do this by yourself. Even when I'm over eager, and take on a gig that doesn't pay right, I at least have some kind of a helper. Sometimes my teenage daughter - who over the years has become fairly knowledgeable. Getting a water or a coffee, going to the can, chasing down the promoter for the cheque - these are all reasons you might have to leave the desk or the event area. That's not even counting the loading, set-up or checking llong ines or.... well the list is endless. As for dollars, I would charge my local market prices for gear and transpo, and then a per hour charge for me, at theatre rates - $25 to $35 an hour. Your helper could be considerably less if you're good at negotiating. Don't forget about your security costs (which might be you camping out), and your event insurance, parking costs, food and so on. So gear, plus hours, plus security and insurance. BTW is this a high profile event, or an event that's masquerading as high profile? They might not have the budget and maybe the gear has to be adjusted to reflect reality. You mention regional. Could you specify - your regional might not be my regional. I'm also confused about how the stage will work. On one hand your PA list sounds quite decent but then the whole approach to mics, drums, and so on is a tad murky. It's curious. EDIT - kind of off topic, but the last gig I did that was similar to this , had a security guard that had a dying iPod. Unfortunately I didn't have an iPod charger on me and since it was 0100h I wasn't about to go get one. Kind of felt bad for him, but I guess at least he could hear if someone was stealing the gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 but moving the Genie's is not trivial even in and out of the truck it's not a one man job (safely)If I remember correctly this guy has implied in the past that he's a BIG dude. I think he's also thrown out gig pay numbers about 2x what goes around here so go back to my "estimate" and double it. And I'll stick by my statement that I'm not messin' with anyone capable of deploying a line array over six 2x18's system by hisself eekphil but yah, at the very least sounds like someone is gonna get hurt eventually. If he really can get $5K for this (or even just the 2.5K) a helper shouldn't break the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Not sure what he is charging but I would never consider moving all that stuff by myself even when I had good knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 If he really can get $5K for this (or even just the 2.5K) a helper shouldn't break the bank. It could be that capable or even available help/employees are non-existent. General lack of an available work force does seem to be a emerging trend in some regions. Locally here, it seems like the folks who actually will WORK universally are working and have very full work schedules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rob_H Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just a comment on the labour calculation...2x paid is light IMO, I use 3x the burden rate for what I pay my guys...can't get to 70% GP on labour if you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 I can always get the LD to help me move things and pay him a little. I could go do it by myself, and have done it before, but using dollies and carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 Can we establish that you are putting in a quote? Or do you have the gig, and already have a fuzzy figure in mind and are now fine tuning it with the buyers. In any case, I'm with AH - don't do this by yourself. Even when I'm over eager, and take on a gig that doesn't pay right, I at least have some kind of a helper. Sometimes my teenage daughter - who over the years has become fairly knowledgeable. Getting a water or a coffee, going to the can, chasing down the promoter for the cheque - these are all reasons you might have to leave the desk or the event area. That's not even counting the loading, set-up or checking llong ines or.... well the list is endless. As for dollars, I would charge my local market prices for gear and transpo, and then a per hour charge for me, at theatre rates - $25 to $35 an hour. Your helper could be considerably less if you're good at negotiating. Don't forget about your security costs (which might be you camping out), and your event insurance, parking costs, food and so on. So gear, plus hours, plus security and insurance. BTW is this a high profile event, or an event that's masquerading as high profile? They might not have the budget and maybe the gear has to be adjusted to reflect reality. You mention regional. Could you specify - your regional might not be my regional. I'm also confused about how the stage will work. On one hand your PA list sounds quite decent but then the whole approach to mics, drums, and so on is a tad murky. It's curious. EDIT - kind of off topic, but the last gig I did that was similar to this , had a security guard that had a dying iPod. Unfortunately I didn't have an iPod charger on me and since it was 0100h I wasn't about to go get one. Kind of felt bad for him, but I guess at least he could hear if someone was stealing the gear! Just a quote right now. I have a Monitor guy and a Lighting guy. Its a pretty big event. Its the Wooden Boat Fest in Madisonville LA. I will probably end up using my mics for EVERYTHING unless otherwise noted. They are on a pretty big budget. They are deploying different sound systems, and I am only doing the Main Stage. I pay my help aroung 15/hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JV90 Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 $15/hr? Is that a good rate price for help around over the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 its ok. Not great, not bad. My help really dosent get pushed to hard. Most of my stuff is pretty light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A.M.Productions Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 its ok. Not great, not bad. My help really dosent get pushed to hard. Most of my stuff is pretty light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 that's a lot, makes my back hurt just reading it. can the stuff be left set up? overnight bonded security? that makes a big difference to me if it's 3 one-off gigs. I'd try to price myself out of this gig! bottom end for me $3k if the stuff can stay set up. I'd want $5k and might bid $6k...but i'd do it with one more engineer and one muscle that's there setup and strike only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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