Members Unalaska Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 Kills me too. On CL today are both an A&H GL2400-32 and an LX7-32. I have the 24ch versions of both. Each seller is offer about 1200ea without a case (got to have a case, no way without!). Just sucks since I'd totally buy them and sell mine... Except the street value of mine is also down. These are 2 very usable boards and one is new in box. I'd be very happy with either even though channel count isn't that big a deal. Last year I bought a yamaha mc32/12 for $400 in a great road case. If I need big that's what I use, and I've used it 4 times. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 I expect that to continue. Personally for what i do analog works just fine but I can see why people will migrate toward digital where you can get a rack full of gear built into a board along with other benefits. Maybe the next step will just be a larger controller/board that interfaces with a high powered laptop with a 17 inch touch screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think if there wasn't a bandwidth problem in wireless, the next step would be digital mixers with built-in wireless receivers per channel, and wireless transmitters for at a minimum, the aux outputs for IEM. But that area is simply too volatile. Regarding analog prices, they are reflecting the market trend and will continue until the saturation point is met. They are the CRT TV's of the live sound world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 Really? Guess I don't have to go to work today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 Wireless volitility is just too high to spend a ton of money on a feature that really isn't all that necessary in a (pro level) console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't buy that. CRTs were displaced because the nice slim ones got so cheap and in fact just as cheap as the CRT. I dont see how that will happen in analog vs digital boards. I think analog will survive no matter what digital does. Possibly analog will have hybrids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 agedhorse wrote:Wireless volitility is just too high to spend a ton of money on a feature that really isn't all that necessary in a (pro level) console. Sounds about right. In a pro level application there's not only a true FOH position, but it's generally in an optimal location with a footprint larger than some of the peformance areas for my 5 pc band at our events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 4, 2014 Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 CRT TVs went away largely because the government forced the switchover to digital. Otherwise I suspect there would still a (small probably) market for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 guido61 wrote:CRT TVs went away largely because the government forced the switchover to digital. Otherwise I suspect there would still a (small probably) market for them. The picture screen has absolutely nothing to do with the tuner. There were and are plenty of CRT TV's that have digital tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 5, 2014 Members Share Posted March 5, 2014 How many old farts does it take to chase down gremlins in a digital console? Today only 3. Turns out an initialization of the M7 does not initialize the word clock routing to internal from external, so if a previous show used an external clock, a word clock error results. The other issue is the default left-right master fader gets assigned (of remaind assigned) to the monitor path and even through an initialization does not get configured back to left right main bus. I don't spend a lot of time with m7s but the foh guy has experience and hadn't seen this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 5, 2014 Members Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have worked 5 different "old guy" shows in a row where all of the crew (touring crew and house crew) were "old guys" it's funny that we have all seen a shift in the way shows are mixed and a crudeness in the art of mixing on a digital platform versus an analog platform. In general, we have seen a shift away from the attention to the music and the players to a focus on the user interface, more time spent with heads down scrolling and paging rather than heads up listening and looking. Also, there is more of a tendency in the digital platforms to tweak parameters first rather than listen and identify what's really going on and see if it might be a mix related issue first rather then jumping to a tech solution. The comfort factor as well as predictable repeatable operation of (pro level) analog consoles was repeatedly noted. These were a A level engineers where I was the system engineer, 3 were guest engineers, 2 I mixed. 4 big shows (~1000 capacity) that were long (~16 hour) days but because of the professional level of the crews as well as the experience level (the least experienced tour guy had 25 years, house A-1 (me) 35 years and the house LD almost 50 years) made these shows challenging yet easy at the same time. This just points out the difference between the different kinds of folks working in the industry at the different levels, and why there are such differences of opinion between the different levels of players. For folks who can't understand why folks at the higher levels have their preferences and needs, it's usually because they are at such a power level that they just don't grasp the bigger picture concepts, and don't understand the language or dialect being spoken. It really is different at the different levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Now if I can just find a Mixwiz for 50.00-100.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 In general, we have seen a shift away from the attention to the music and the players to a focus on the user interface, more time spent with heads down scrolling and paging rather than heads up listening and looking. Also, there is more of a tendency in the digital platforms to tweak parameters first rather than listen and identify what's really going on and see if it might be a mix related issue first rather then jumping to a tech solution. This drives me nuts. Almost every time I'm at a show big or small, if there's a digital console being used, the heads are down scrolling and clicking instead of actually watching and listening to whats going on. Just thinking about it gets my blood pumping. On a different note: I have a friend that got a used SL24. He sold his analog board, rack gear, and always tells me to quit lugging around the Midas Venice and the FOH rack that I use and get with the new digital times. I told him to buy a backup and he laughed at the suggestion. A few weeks later I get a frantic call around 9 pm telling me that he needs to use my stuff because the SL keeps rebooting about every 5 minutes. I felt just a little vindicated. Give me an analog board and a bif FOH rack any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Different levels have different considerations. Reliability is an issue with digital consoles. It's an issue. But when I'm making 400 a night, I'm going to do things to expedite the load in and out however I can. Ditching the snake, the whole foh position, power etc., is very appealing. Not to mention, it's usually just me. And if it's a night with more than one act, I can be on stage for monitor setup. No need to use a talkback or any of that. No band speaking through the system for monitor adjustments at first. The whole time spent looking at the board is a different issue. I bet I'll have that in the back of my mind next time. Just to notice what I'm actually doing. I do a lot of looking at the stage though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 I just sold one for $400. (Tossed in an Alesis CLX-440. Don't have inserts on the DL1608.) I still have an Alesis Multimix 16 firewire for recording, backup and spare. Totally right about the mixwiz. Totally solid mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dendy Jarrett Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Different levels have different considerations. Reliability is an issue with digital consoles. It's an issue. But when I'm making 400 a night, I'm going to do things to expedite the load in and out however I can. Ditching the snake, the whole foh position, power etc., is very appealing. Not to mention, it's usually just me. And if it's a night with more than one act, I can be on stage for monitor setup. No need to use a talkback or any of that. No band speaking through the system for monitor adjustments at first. The whole time spent looking at the board is a different issue. I bet I'll have that in the back of my mind next time. Just to notice what I'm actually doing. I do a lot of looking at the stage though. Wow: If folks out of Nashville got paid $400 a show, I'd go back out on the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Wow: If folks out of Nashville got paid $400 a show, I'd go back out on the road! Funny thing is it seems he's saying ONLY $400 like that's low $$$ to roll with a basic sound system. Heck, it's tough to get $250 around here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 And don't they want you to have equipment that's less than 5 years old with a 40 channel board? Everyone wants it cheap. It's a bit funny but I was making as much from my political rallies when I told them to pay what they wanted as I am giving them a rate. There are always a few that toss some extra in. (Love those people.) Then there are people like Andy who actually know what things cost, built a great reputation and I'm guessing are never cheap, but clients never go away thinking they got less than they paid for. (And forgive me for not including the other few who sit in that same category of expertise and excellence who raise the value of advice here so much.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 With 2-4 bands, stage management duty and running the board, I think ~400 is awfully competitive. I hope you guys aren't doing that for 250. Using digital boards saves me precious time. I am staking my reputation on these products, but so far so good. And at my level, I feel it's an acceptable level of risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 With 2-4 bands, stage management duty and running the board, I think ~400 is awfully competitive. I hope you guys aren't doing that for 250. Using digital boards saves me precious time. I am staking my reputation on these products, but so far so good. And at my level, I feel it's an acceptable level of risk. I try to stay away from multi-band shows. Most places doing those have house sound anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yeah, I'm between $300 - $1250 depending on the gig, the customer (long term or not) lights or not etc. my main bread and butter sound only gig is $350. Usually 2 - 3 bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rob_H Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 Funny thing is it seems he's saying ONLY $400 like that's low $$$ to roll with a basic sound system. Heck, it's tough to get $250 around here . That is low for here but I am also in a remote setting; I would only work at this level if it was for a charity or some level of a favour....normal rate would be 2.5 times that amount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 That is low for here but I am also in a remote setting; I would only work at this level if it was for a charity or some level of a favour....normal rate would be 2.5 times that amountWell darn this carp, I gotta move somewhere that doesn't suck I guess LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 This drives me nuts. Almost every time I'm at a show big or small, if there's a digital console being used, the heads are down scrolling and clicking instead of actually watching and listening to whats going on. Just thinking about it gets my blood pumping. On a different note: I have a friend that got a used SL24. He sold his analog board, rack gear, and always tells me to quit lugging around the Midas Venice and the FOH rack that I use and get with the new digital times. I told him to buy a backup and he laughed at the suggestion. A few weeks later I get a frantic call around 9 pm telling me that he needs to use my stuff because the SL keeps rebooting about every 5 minutes. I felt just a little vindicated. Give me an analog board and a bif FOH rack any day of the week. One could argue about active speaker PA system recommadation to newbies vs passive tri-amped PA system since it's okay for speakers to have microchips but not mixers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 so for that $350 gig how much equipment are you bringing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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