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Upgrading sound reinforcement for rock band playing mostly outdoor venues


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Hi all,

I play in a rock band of National Park Service rangers (!!!). Lineup varies, usually 4-6 piece (2-3 guitars, bass, keys, drums, occasional sidemen on sax and/or flute and/or trumpet and/or resonator guitar). Sometimes we'll deploy some extra mics and back up guest vocalist/ guitarists, like kids or teachers from local schools. We play some folksy, acoustic rock, but our main thing is electric, hard rock. Volumes are generally lower than in a club. We need to project good, clean vocals. We play a variety of mostly outdoor venues. Like:

A wooden pavilion about 110ft x 50ft, open on the long sides, wooden stage at one end, folks often spilling out the sides a little. Max capacity 600+.

An outdoor amphitheater with a wooden stage, a stone wall behind us, and a terraced hillside bowl about 50ft deep with a grove of trees behind. Maximum capacity maybe 300 people?

A low concrete stage in a gravel patio about 100ft x 100ft, low stone wall at our backs, the far 2 sides enclosed by a 2-storey building. Max capacity 300?

We started small with existing gear acquired for other kinds of small group presentations. We've got a couple of Shure SM58s, some mic stands, a Fender Stage Passport 500 and an older Fender Stage Passport 150.  But we are sometimes playing to audiences of up to 500 now. A couple of high profile gigs clearly demonstrated the need for more and better sound reinforcement.

I've been asked to recommend how best to upgrade our sound system for about $2000. I'm told a federal government business rule requires us to buy only new gear (bummer...). Additional funds may be available in future years, and we want gear that can be used for smaller presentations of other sorts too, so we want a modular, expandable system. Simple is good. Portable is good.

I figure we need a passive mixer capable of handling our largest needs. 16 channels ought to do it. If we ever need to mic drums, we can get a sub-mixer. I've considered the following mixers:

Yamaha MG166CX  mixer ($430) I've used one happily for years with my other band. Onboard compressors are a plus. Reverb is useable. Other effects are mostly irrelevant. I don't see the need for stereo USB outs.

Allen&Heath MixWiz WZ4:16:2. Terrific, but at $1000 it's probably more than we can afford. Many aux outs makes possible lots of monitor mixes. All channel USB outs would be awesome for live recording projects. But it's a little complicated for my crew. Could add outboard compressors someday, but that adds complexity.

PA will be mostly for vocals and acoustic instruments (always at least 1 acoustic guitar). Electric instruments can mostly project from the backline. I guess we can use acoustic guitar amps on the backline too if need be. For affordable powered mains capable of playing to 500 people at an outdoor venue, a pair of either:

JBL EON515XT for mains. (@$500) Sweetwater has a package deal $1279 for a pair, including stands, and a pair of 50' XLR cables

Electro-voice ZLX-15P (@$500) or would the EXL series be a better choice?

I guess we'll have to use the Fender Stagepasses for monitors until we can afford better. That's about all the current budget will support.

Wishlist: powered monitors, subwoofer, 100ft 16+4 snake, EQ, anti-feedback tools, power conditioner...

What do savvy, experienced sound pros think? Can those mains give us adequate sound support playing  to 500+ people in the pavilion? Are there better choices for any part of this plan?

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So to my way of thinking you have a painfully low budget (who doesn't wink.gif).  The speakers you have mentioned would cover maybe 150-200 people outdoors.

 

I would spend most of your budget it on active speakers and maybe that Yamaha mixer is it suits your purposes.  If you dilute it much more you'll just end up with a whole bunch of crappy gear.

 

Now I have a dog in the fight as we manufacture speakers that would fall into your budget.  What I can offer you is a free trial at your venue.  Just go sign up here ... http://line6.com/testdrive/

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Yes, painfully low to be sure. Like the entire budget of the NPS. :-)  We are running a very lean program.

But it's a big step up from zero, which is how our band's first year went. The more we impress over time, the more budget we'll pull. I'm thinking modular, expandable, incremental.

We are kind of a geezer band, so our need for hard-hitting low end is not so great. And some of our gifgs are pretty small. But we have find ourselves playing to audiences of 500+ s a couple itmes a year.  What's the low end for gear we would really need to play to 500 in a pavilion?

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Thanks for all the good info, you all. I'm now told we'd really like to include a couple of powered monitors at this time, and the budget could go as high as $2600 or so.

I definitely like what I see in the Allen&Heath product line. Having a couple of aux's sounds good to me. My other band uses the Yamaha166CXusb and we sometimes come up short on aux outs.

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Add a pair of ZLX12Ps to BillESC's recommendation and you're done. Add a sub or subs later and use the 12s with the sub(s) and the 15s for monitors. Stay in the same family of product if you can... and look forward as you build and try to eventually get to a system that is scalable.

How likely is it that you'll get the green light to add to the system again, and how soon? As stated, you can use the passports for monitors and/or sidefills... and if you were willing to do that I'd say go for the Yamaha speakers mentioned... or get a bigger mixer with more aux sends to begin with for the extra money. You can never have too many aux sends.

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surferbeto wrote:

So now I guess I'm looking for a pair of powered wedges

that will serve our needs as monitors. Looks to me like the low end for suitable products is about $400 each. Make and models to look for?

 

 

Alto TS112a's ($300.00 ea) for monitors, Yamaha DXR15's for tops, and A&H ZED or MixWiz for mixing and you will have a fine sounding system.

I was near GC today and gave the EV ZLX15p's a quick A/B against the DXR15's.  I thought the DXR's were quite a bit better to my ear.  You should give these speakers a try yourself.

The Alto's are pretty good for the money.   I would be sure to give them a listen as well next to the ZLX12's.

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