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New gig last night - first question - "Are you doing karaoke?"


Notes_Norton

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New Yacht Club gig last night - first question - "Are you doing karaoke?"

 

We said, "Of course not."

 

The woman said, "Good, the last band was only doing karaoke."

 

I know the duo, but won't mention their name. They buy karaoke tracks and use audio loop software for their tracks. Good musicians, great sounding karaoke sounding backing tracks - but they sound like karaoke tracks - better tone to a musician's ear - but cheating to an audience member's ear..

 

I make my own tracks using 100% MIDI instruments (synths) and the same lady told us she is going to ask for us to come back again and again. (see http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html for how I make and use them).

 

We had the crowd up dancing from the time they finished dinner until they told us to stop playing.

 

Life is good.

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So the duo you mention doesnt play instruments at all, just show up to sing to the karaoke tracks?

 

 

They play/sing along with karaoke tracks and loops. I heard them a few years ago at an Elk's lodge. And they are decent at it.

 

The point I think I want to make is that if you are playing with backing tracks, you might want to try to make them not sound like karaoke tracks. First make sure there aren't any background vocals, that's a dead giveaway. Then use MIDI instruments instead of live ones as they sound a little synthy, like you are doing them yourself.

 

There might be other 'tricks of the trade' to get backing tracks NOT to sound karaoke-ish, and this might be a good thread to post them. I'd appreciate that kind of discussion.

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They play/sing along with karaoke tracks and loops. I heard them a few years ago at an Elk's lodge. And they are decent at it.


The point I think I want to make is that if you are playing with backing tracks, you might want to try to make them not sound like karaoke tracks. First make sure there aren't any background vocals, that's a dead giveaway. Then use MIDI instruments instead of live ones as they sound a little synthy, like you are doing them yourself.


There might be other 'tricks of the trade' to get backing tracks NOT to sound karaoke-ish, and this might be a good thread to post them. I'd appreciate that kind of discussion.

 

 

Very odd, I have never heard of such a thing. Think it would be sort of campy; do they run it like karaoke and bring others up or just sing along with tracks by themselves?

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Nope, they just sing/play along with their backing tracks like so many of us do. They just use that method to make them - or buy them ready-recorded.

 

I guess there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different way to do it. I heard them once a few years ago, and thought they were OK. But hearing a song in the arrangement of the record with chick singers singing the backing vocals was rather obvious.

 

I don't know what kind of looping software they use, they said they buy karaoke tracks and also assemble things from companies like Big Fish. I'm not that interested, but I thought I'd post this as a help to someone else in the duo biz.

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Nope, they just sing/play along with their backing tracks like so many of us do.

 

 

I'm not terribly worried exactly where you draw the line between "backing tracks" and "karaoke". And I'm not concerned about whether or not an audience perceives it as "cheating". That may be the opinion they form but I expect it's more about whether or not they feel they were entertained (whatever that means).

 

I have been asked whether or not we were just lip syncing to a CD and I've always taken that as a complement. Many times it is my goal to sound as close as it is possible to the record ... although not always.

 

 

We had the crowd up dancing from the time they finished dinner until they told us to stop playing.


 

Seems to me this is the only thing that is relevant ... by whatever means necessary.

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I'm not terribly worried exactly where you draw the line between "backing tracks" and "karaoke". And I'm not concerned about whether or not an audience perceives it as "cheating". That may be the opinion they form but I expect it's more about whether or not they feel they were entertained (whatever that means).


I have been asked whether or not we were just lip syncing to a CD and I've always taken that as a complement. Many times it is my goal to sound as close as it is possible to the record ... although not always.


Seems to me this is the only thing that is relevant ... by whatever means necessary.

 

 

 

I agree with dboomer. How do you define backing tracks and karaoke?

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i've had people come up to me and ask about hiring my DJ service. i tell them "no dj here. i am "the Jay". they dont even notice the 3 guitars, keyboard, and banjo on the stage. to them, i'm just a dj. :/

 

some people dont know the difference between DJ, Karaoke, Solo act, band. they hear music...if they like it, they have a good time. the next day comes and they dont even know what they listened to the night before

 

there are 3 piece Karaoke groups around here selling their selves off as a band. there are no instruments. 2 singers and a dj running the karaoke. everybody around calls them a band. oh well

 

theres room for all kinds of entertainment down here in florida. we are not all after the same venues. thats good

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i've had people come up to me and ask about hiring my DJ service. i tell them "no dj here. i am "the Jay". they dont even notice the 3 guitars, keyboard, and banjo on the stage. to them, i'm just a dj. :/


some people dont know the difference between DJ, Karaoke, Solo act, band. they hear music...if they like it, they have a good time. the next day comes and they dont even know what they listened to the night before


there are 3 piece Karaoke groups around here selling their selves off as a band. there are no instruments. 2 singers and a dj running the karaoke. everybody around calls them a band. oh well


theres room for all kinds of entertainment down here in florida. we are not all after the same venues. thats good

 

 

makes no difference to me. People call those silly Backstreet boys, Westlife "BAND' as well.

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i call 3 or more singers a vocal group

 

backstreet boys are a vocal group. i suppose they have a band that backs them, but they could do their thing with a karaoke disc.

 

i would call the temptations, tony orlando and dawn, o'jays, etc are vocal groups, but if you look on the vocal group hall of fame, there are a lot of bands on there.

 

its all subjective. i guess their are no rules to follow anymore.

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Where I'm at in Central Ill. There are not a whole lot of people that use backing tracks. It seems to get neg. results. I play in two power trios and do a solo acoustic gig. Lately I have been thinking about doing a couple of songs w/backing tracks to see how it will "fly". so the other day I was searching Backing tracks and midi files on the net. I tune my guitar down 1/2 step (my vocal range is not that high) the backing tracks seemed to fall apart slightly when transposed. (could just be a software issue) I down loaded a couple of midi files into Cubase and put better sounding vst instuments to the parts that I would use, Bass, Drums and keys. It does not sound bad at all. I then converted to an mp3 and downloaded to my ipod. My GF rolls her eyes and says it takes away from the solo acoustic show.

I liked Norton's suggestion of panning bass and drums hard left and everything else hard right then running a mono signal live to be able to pump up more low end if needed. Now I just have to try one or two songs on my next gig to see how it will go over.

My dad is retired around the Homosassa FL. area, and it seems there are alot of solo acts down there that use them and they go over well. so I guess my point is if it works roll with, if not then don't. I will find out next weekend LOL. I just don't want it to sound like a karaoke show.

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Shouldn't they be called "DJs"?

 

 

 

 

New Yacht Club gig last night - first question - "Are you doing karaoke?"


We said, "Of course not."


The woman said, "Good, the last band was only doing karaoke."


I know the duo, but won't mention their name. They buy karaoke tracks and use audio loop software for their tracks. Good musicians, great sounding karaoke sounding backing tracks - but they sound like karaoke tracks - better tone to a musician's ear - but cheating to an audience member's ear..


I make my own tracks using 100% MIDI instruments (synths) and the same lady told us she is going to ask for us to come back again and again. (see
for how I make and use them).


We had the crowd up dancing from the time they finished dinner until they told us to stop playing.


Life is good.

 

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Bob, we already had a thread about how to best use backing tracks. But I'm far too lazy to track it down. The biggest reason that people dislike backing tracks in my opinion is that so many people use bad ones. But you won't get everyone to agree on what makes a bad track. You've got the a musician using synths and drum machines and the entire show is triggered by a sequencer, so they're not technically using backing tracks. And on the other end you have people downloading free MIDI files that someone slapped together in 2 minutes and using their computer's crappy General Midi sounds to create a 128 k mp3 file. And all things in between.

 

There's also the "less is more" vs. "sound like the record" debate. I think people are split on that, based on what I've heard and seen out there.

 

But since it keeps coming up and since there are always new forum members who aren't aware, here's my take. Again.

 

If you're performing with tracks, for the most part you're trying to sound like a band. If you want to sound good, your voice and guitar (or voice and piano) need to be the hilight, and the backing tracks are there to provide the beat and fill out the sound a little bit. The more the drums and bass sound like real instruments, the better you're going to sound. So how much you care about how you sound will impact what you do for tracks. The best thing would be to go into a studio and record a drummer playing the song. The second best thing is a tie - either using drum loops of real drums (like Drums on Demand) or expertly programming the part using drum samples. There's an art to this and often drummers do it best. For example, you shouldn't have the kick and crash at the exact same time - it's far more realistic sounding to delay the crash ever so slightly, because it's what real drummers do. The human ear expects these little imperfections. For bass tracks, real is best, but if you have to go sampled, you should play the part and leave some of the little imperfections in there.

 

For me, that's where it stops. Once in a huge while I'll add in another instrument - usually a subtle Rhodes or piano. But with just bass and drums, your main instrument is featured. It sounds better and it looks better. The more instruments you add, the more you're competing with them. So you are emulating a trio, really.

 

If you look at a really professionally thought out concert, you'll see that the song selection is designed to be varied - a group will usually start out with upbeat stuff, and at some point in time they'll tone it down. And by the end of the show they're upbeat again. This works because listeners like variety. When the music changes, it perks their ears up and makes them pay attention. Since I play guitar and keys, I plan my shows to sonically go all over the map - keys and voice, keys and voice and backing tracks, guitar and voice, guitar and voice and backing tracks, etc. I have a few songs where I play both keys and guitar with tracks. It's sonically more interesting than if I just played acoustic and sang for 3 hours.

 

When I see solo performers using backing tracks, they're almost never doing it like I outlined above. More often than not, they're using full backing tracks with drums, bass, keys, guitars, strings, horns, you name it, and they're using those types of tracks for every song, so they all sound the same after a short time. And the quality of the tracks are awful - General MIDI sounds, everything machine perfect. It's awful, and it's the reason so many people here hate backing tracks.

 

And then there's the PA, and we've beaten that topic to death too, but it won't stop us from continuing to beat it. PA for backing tracks is very easy if you remember that you're trying to sound like a band. At a live show, the excitement of the music IS the kick drum. It's the energy. And you can feel it in your chest and for the most part people love that. There are two ways to achieve this - use a sub, or have at least one speaker on the floor. The kick has to be deep and full, even at lower volumes. It is very hard, though not impossible, to do that with two speakers on poles. A small sub sounds far better and can create that live band type of energy and sound. But for the most part I see two speakers on poles and the backing tracks sound like someone is playing a CD. The thing that separates a CD sound from a band sound IS the deep kick drum.

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When I do my one-man-Geman-band act, I use a cheap Yamaha keyboard with that one finger bass/chord/rhythm accompaniment deal and play melodies using an accordian or clarinet voice.

 

Inevitably, I'll get someone coming up to me and complimenting me on my DJ abilities.

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I suspect a lot of non-musicians couldn't discern the difference between an electronic keyboard, a DJ rig, and a mixing board ... all they see is a bewildering array of buttons, knobs, and flashing lights.

 

 

In my experience, if you have a keyboard everyone assumes the drums and other sounds are coming from the keyboard. Unless you have a laptop, in which case they think you're a DJ. There are some guys who play live music AND do the DJ thing in the same show. I did that for a relative's wedding reception. I played piano and sang while people were eating cake, then played and sang a few slow songs for the bride and groom dance and a few after. Then I DJ'd the rest of the reception. Actually I had a lot of fun doing that. DJ'ing is one tenth the work that live performance is - it was very relaxing.

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I think the differences between backing tracks and karaoke tracks are:

 

1) Backing tracks don't necessarily sound just like the record. The arrangement can be different, and the instruments sound a little different. Karaoke tracks are meant to sound "just like the record" and I think when the public hears that, they automatically assume the musicians are not playing the parts but instead doing karaoke

 

2) Karaoke tracks often fade out - good backing tracks never fade out

 

3) Karaoke tracks often have background singing strangers on them - a good backing track will play the backing singer parts on a synth, brass, sax or other patch - depending on the song.

 

Thinking out loud here: I know when we musicians cover a song, we often strive to sound like the record, but I think if you get too close, people may think you are doing karaoke and that is a negative.

 

I also suppose this might vary by location and age group.

 

Anyway, I'm glad we now have the gig - even if it is one or two parties per year.

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