Members Bob Dey Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 One thing that is different about a solo act. We're expected to keep the volume down in most venues but also maintain some energy. This has been a struggle for me. I mean, some places want the volume real low. Yet places that have bands want a solo to have the volume the bands have. I get used to setting my volume at a slightly loud level at one place, then get asked to turn down (twice) at another. I've got an agent that often uses the word "upbeat". He wants "upbeat" but I'm not getting repeat business out of a lot of venues and I'm sensing that I'm too loud when I'm upbeat. Long ago I came up with a few songs that have a good rhythm, yet don't need to be loud. But I have a hard time playing hard rock at a low volume. This might seem to be more for those that use BT, but I've heard acoustic players play louder than me! So, anyone else have a hard time finding a happy medium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donkey 12 Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I think the best any of us can do is try to understand what the person who hired you wants and try to match that. I often ask whoever hired us about the levels when I am doing sound check to determine how loud we should play. I also try to read the audience, or even ask them after the first song, to determine if we are at a good volume and what levels are suitable. We play much louder for some performances than others, but we have not had anyone ever tell us to turn up or turn down. I realize I probably have not offered any revelatory insights here, but this is how I have tried to achieve suitable volume levels for various venues. Hope it helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Three things for me: 1) I deliberately mix the music so that frequencies ideal for speech are deemphasized. There are plenty of papers and articles that discuss this. Do a google search for "speech frequencies" to find some. 2) i always employ a sound system with way more power than i use, so that the audio is EXTREMELY clean, so that no perceivable distortion generates frequencies and noise that would cause extra interference with the speech frequencies discussed in number 1. 3) most importantly, I watch the table right in front of me. The minute I see someone raising their voice to be heard, then I'm too loud. I distinguish "full" sound from "loud" sound. I can sound very "full" and shake some booties without being overly loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yeah my system is clean too and that makes a big difference. However the best cue is watching people to see if they can have a conversation without straining. Of course the problem with that is then people at further distances have more of a difficult time hearing the performance. I figured out something a few years ago. Often times when you start, people will perceive that you're too loud because it's adding to the overall "noise" of the room. People settle in after about 15 minutes and the music is part of the room noise and they get used to it. After about 30 minutes, I start raising the volume and continue on an upward course with additional volume until their ears bleed...lol. If I get busted, then I simply turn down a little or pretend too. and normallyget the thumbs up. It works every single time. Do you know how I know? I've tried it on like three different old couples before and they never notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Three things for me: 3) most importantly, I watch the table right in front of me. The minute I see someone raising their voice to be heard, then I'm too loud. what he said..! its a great way to guage how your coming across volumewise... i also look around to see if theyre tapping the table to the beat while they talk, or absent-mindedly lip syncing to choruses or whatever... it means that in their head theyre actually rocking out and enjoying the sounds. the signs are more subtle when its that kind of a quieter setting.. except for last sat i played a bar where the people just didnt talk full stop! they were all lined up at the bar, but even when i wasnt playing they werent bloody talking, so hows a guy supposed to guage then eh?!!! d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I just start out towards the low end of the volume thingy at a new venue...as a general rule, when management asks if you can be a little louder, they'll ask with a smile, but tend to be frowning when demanding that you turn it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I use a volume pedal mostly, and I find that after two songs, I had the pedal to the metal. I really need to get ahold of this. I had another guy recently ask me to try some collaboration as a duo. The first gig, his guitar was way too {censored}ing loud from the get go. You try to lead by example and keep your volume reasonable. But the truth is, when he'd drop out for some reason, my guitar seemed pretty anemic. He has some cheapo piezo thing which is really snarly. My guitar has a contact pickup and piezo, so I can get a really nice natural sound. However, the way they blended was not good. The other problem was it was the house PA, which came with a "qualified operator" (the bar owner) who wouldn't allow anyone else to touch it. So that was kind of off topic, but the lesson learned was I need to get over being a slave to how awesome my guitar sounds because it usually leads to mix or volume issues. I played a duo gig outside a couple weeks ago and the people at the front most table retreated after a little while because I probably cranked it up too much trying to get a good sound through the PA. My failure. I am working on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Musical energy and volume are two different things. You can have loud music with no energy and very energetic music at livingroom volume. I go for energetic music first. The volume depends on the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 You can have loud music with no energy and very energetic music at livingroom volume. I go for energetic music first. The volume depends on the room. Energetic at VERY LOW volume is difficult for me. I sing very loud and struggle with this at times if I have to be very quiet for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Well, I know you use tracks, Bob, and I don't, so take what i say with a grain. I keep everything at a pretty stable volume. I set and forget the PA. Everything I do revolves around how I play something. Slow mellower songs I fingerpick and sing more softly. Higher energy stuff, I slap chords or play percussively. The volume isn't much louder at all, but the feel definitely is. The ear is a tricky thing. Sometimes management thinks you're louder simply because the songs are faster. Years ago, I had a GM of the restaurant I was playing tell me it was too loud when I played the last song. I told him I hadn't changed a thing from when I started. He said he didn't believe it. I showed him how I played the slow stuff, and then how I played the fast stuff. Standing in front of me, he admitted there was no change in volume, but while he was busy doing other things, the tempo change told him it was louder. He never bothered me about it again after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Energetic at VERY LOW volume is difficult for me. I sing very loud and struggle with this at times if I have to be very quiet for whatever reason. I am a very dynamic rhythm and lead player with a strong voice. There are times I doubt I need a PA but do anyway. I can tone my style down without losing the energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I sing very loud and struggle with this at times if I have to be very quiet for whatever reason. Me too. That is but one of the reasons I hate little living room rehearsals with the duo. I can't sing for {censored} if I am half singing. My pitches are terrible and I know it sounds bad. I do sing pretty high on alot of songs. Since I used to play brass, it's just natural for me to push it from my gut. Seems kind of weird to be screaming out stuff in the family room with one guy sitting on the other side of the coffee table. I have been trying to get that under control as well. I have found this voice that is in between falsetto and screaming that I'd love to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted August 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I think the best any of us can do is try to understand what the person who hired you wants and try to match that. I often ask whoever hired us about the levels when I am doing sound check to determine how loud we should play. I also try to read the audience, or even ask them after the first song, to determine if we are at a good volume and what levels are suitable. We play much louder for some performances than others, but we have not had anyone ever tell us to turn up or turn down. I realize I probably have not offered any revelatory insights here, but this is how I have tried to achieve suitable volume levels for various venues. Hope it helps... This is good advice, but there have been situations where I don't meet the owner or manager until the end of the night. Get hired thru an agent, owner is around until he's tracked down at the end of the night. I don't do sound checks very often because there are usually people eating and it would be disruptive. I've been told to turn down many times ever since I went solo in the late '80s. Sometimes more than once! If they want it that quiet I stop using BT, and do folky type stuff which tends to be laid back. So maybe finding songs that can be done on acoustic and be upbeat is the dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted August 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Three things for me:1) I deliberately mix the music so that frequencies ideal for speech are deemphasized. There are plenty of papers and articles that discuss this. Do a google search for "speech frequencies" to find some.2) i always employ a sound system with way more power than i use, so that the audio is EXTREMELY clean, so that no perceivable distortion generates frequencies and noise that would cause extra interference with the speech frequencies discussed in number 1.3) most importantly, I watch the table right in front of me. The minute I see someone raising their voice to be heard, then I'm too loud.I distinguish "full" sound from "loud" sound. I can sound very "full" and shake some booties without being overly loud. 1) interesting, never heard of it. So you don't want your voice heard? 2) I have a good system 3) I watch people too, but sometimes they don't show any obvious body language, don't say anything, but they still think it's too loud. A woman friend of mine asked a lady in the bathroom what she thought of the musician and she replied that I was good, but too loud. I think I was starting out at the wrong volume, because I was trying to impress everyone. And I had gotten used to playing at places that like the volume up more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted August 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Energetic at VERY LOW volume is difficult for me. I sing very loud and struggle with this at times if I have to be very quiet for whatever reason. Same here Darrell. I started out as a Rock musician and never had the soft, pretty voice that many acoustic solo singers have. I've developed a softer voice on some songs, but they're mostly slow songs that put people to sleep. That's one way to captivate an audience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toddkuen Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 ...2) i always employ a sound system with way more power than i use, so that the audio is EXTREMELY clean, so that no perceivable distortion generates frequencies and noise that would cause extra interference with the speech frequencies discussed in number 1... There's a couple of other benefits to "more power than I need" I think. One is that you can "compress" yourself by using a volume pedal - bring down loud passages, bring up soft ones as the song dictates to maintain a "perceived volume" in the room. As the room fills/becomes more noisy you can adjust dynamically relative to the overall room volume - which could be caused by more/louder people instead simply "too loud" music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 1) interesting, never heard of it. So you don't want your voice heard?2) I have a good system3) I watch people too, but sometimes they don't show any obvious body language, don't say anything, but they still think it's too loud. A woman friend of mine asked a lady in the bathroom what she thought of the musician and she replied that I was good, but too loud. I think I was starting out at the wrong volume, because I was trying to impress everyone. And I had gotten used to playing at places that like the volume up more. Re #1: I leave the voice alone in terms of the special EQing. I only duck "speech" frequencies on the instrumental components. It isn't drastic, it is very subtle, but it helps. Another beneficial side effect is my voice can "cut through" at a slightly lower volume, giving even more sonic space for conversation. I had never heard of anyone doing it before either, at least based on conversational speech frequencies, but I thought I would try it. It seems to work, so I kept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members southpaw pete Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re #1: I leave the voice alone in terms of the special EQing. I only duck "speech" frequencies on the instrumental components. It isn't drastic, it is very subtle, but it helps. Another beneficial side effect is my voice can "cut through" at a slightly lower volume, giving even more sonic space for conversation.I had never heard of anyone doing it before either, at least based on conversational speech frequencies, but I thought I would try it. It seems to work, so I kept it. Nice. I know about giving every instrument their own sonic space in the mix with eq, but hadn't thought about carving out for conversational speech. Interesting. What freq do you find yourself normally adjusting for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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