Members wkendhacker Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 I noticed some positive comments about the powerwerks PAs here. Aren't they all underpowered for use as a primary gigging PA? I don't know the first thing about wattage etc, I just know it's enough or not enough when i hear it. Is the biggest PA (200 watts, right?) enough to use as a primary for a solo or duo? I'm not going to be playing a concert hall, but some of the bars and wineries aren't tiny andf there is usually quite an echo esp with people talking etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted November 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2012 obviously 200 watts is going to limit the size of the places you play. But is it 200W total, per channel,...peak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wkendhacker Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Looks like I was wrong about 200watts. there is one model with a 100 watt amp and 2 speakers capable of carrying 50 watts each. the other is a single unit, like an L1 or soloamp that's 100 watts. I don't actually see a 200 watt model on the website. Wonder why they don't make something more powerful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 It'll depend on how loud you need to be, and if you can get the speaker up over the audience's heads (human bodies absorb sound). I do a lot of restaurants and indoor wineries, small private parties and weddings (that hold up to 100 people) w/ a single 50 watt "mini PA" (Crate Limo50) on a stand, but these're situations where you're not required to blast out anyone's hearing. For loud, rowdy and/or larger gigs, 200watts is probably about the minimum. When shopping for a sound system, buy for the largest gigs you can envision playing, as a powerful system can be turned down, but a small systen can only be cranked so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sounds very underpowered, and at that low price the sound quality must be terrible. I've used a single JBL eon 10 (60 watts) before for very small rooms which isn't bad for ac guitar and vocals. But very larger rooms it can only be used as a monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 Due to travelling by bus and train, I was forced to replace my BOSE L1 and ended up with a Yamaha DXR8, e small powered fellow loaded with 1100 W. It is capable of playing loud, but I miss the BOSE soundwise. The yammie is Nice sounding, but it is something with the Line Array and dipersion that I miss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 Originally Posted by wkendhacker I noticed some positive comments about the powerwerks PAs here. Aren't they all underpowered for use as a primary gigging PA? I don't know the first thing about wattage etc, I just know it's enough or not enough when i hear it.Is the biggest PA (200 watts, right?) enough to use as a primary for a solo or duo? I'm not going to be playing a concert hall, but some of the bars and wineries aren't tiny andf there is usually quite an echo esp with people talking etc.... If you're going to "play out", you really do not want to get into this level of gear. This is stuff for kids to play with in the basement. If funds are tight, you'd probably be better off buying something more serious, in the "used" market.Don't just take my word for it though,,,, go out and listen to some of this gear before taking the plunge. Take your time, and get to know a bit about the performance and limitations of the gear. Standing 4-feet away, and a three-minute audition listening to a CD,, is not a way to assess how the system performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2012 Originally Posted by Bajazz Due to travelling by bus and train, I was forced to replace my BOSE L1 and ended up with a Yamaha DXR8, e small powered fellow loaded with 1100 W.It is capable of playing loud, but I miss the BOSE soundwise. The yammie is Nice sounding, but it is something with the Line Array and dipersion that I miss... I thought the Bose L1 was easily portable? I've seen the Yamaha, it's like a foot square and 18" tall, so I guess that is smaller, but it must weigh ~30 lbs, and you still need a stand...and how does that 8" speaker handle 1100W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2012 Originally Posted by wkendhacker Looks like I was wrong about 200watts. there is one model with a 100 watt amp and 2 speakers capable of carrying 50 watts each. the other is a single unit, like an L1 or soloamp that's 100 watts.I don't actually see a 200 watt model on the website.Wonder why they don't make something more powerful... 100W will work in some settings, but as mentioned regarding 200W, it will limit the rooms you can use it in. They make a 200W subwoofer so it looks like all their systems are woefully underpowered, and that is how they keep their prices so low. The one that runs 100W and looks like the Fishstick is $200, but you need to add their stand for another $70 (stands can be bought for a lot less)... if their 'system' info is right, you can link two of these together, and add the sub...and for ~750 you would have an 'adequate' system for small rooms...but for that $, you'd do better with that Yamaha DXR8 for ~$550 and a speaker stand (which can be found for under $50)...or a used Fishstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 The PW100T is a line array type speaker system/PA and is 100 watts. However, it is highly recommended to use the PA112S 200 watt sub to get the full benefit of the system. The Powerwerks system is the same as the Kustom system that's sold in Europe.I have yet to hear a bad review of the unit by anyone who is knowledgeable of the actual unit and has used the system as it's designed to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 200 watts into what? If it is into 8 ohms I would think that would be a lot of power. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 The "Watts" in a powered speaker system doesn't really tell you anything. Well it does tell you how much heat is created, but what you want to know is how much sound is put out, right? What you want to compare when looking at speakers is the "maxSPL" spec and it's very hard without being an engineer to actually get an apples-to-apples figure. In any event, what you question "was is will this work for me?". And that all depends on what you intend to do. If you are gonna sing and play acoustic guitar at restaurant levels and indoors I would expect this would work fine. If you have drums and bass in the performance then I'd expect it to be about 1/4th of how it would work in the first situation. There is also a quality component and I don't know what quality you expect. Distortion in speakers rises exponentially as the level goes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 Originally Posted by Telecruiser 200 watts into what? If it is into 8 ohms I would think that would be a lot of power. Correct? According to the manuals the head is 100 watts into 4 ohms. The sub is 200 watts into 8 ohms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by daddymack I thought the Bose L1 was easily portable? I've seen the Yamaha, it's like a foot square and 18" tall, so I guess that is smaller, but it must weigh ~30 lbs, and you still need a stand...and how does that 8" speaker handle 1100W? The L1 is portable, but with 2 subs, 2 poles and the main unit, it's much more items to haul than the Yammie.For the size, the 8" speaker makes a lot of noise. It's rated at 131db/1m so for 100 ppl, and testing it in practical use I found it to be OK. Got the punch but not the dispersion and clean even sound of the L1, although some would disagree. And yes, I know that watts isn't the final specs, but nor is db spl. Specs lives it's own life paralell to practical use.I tried a lot of things when I was searching for a micro PA, and ended up with the DXR8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 And oh, beer crates makes nice speaker stands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 This is kinda cool, and along the same lines:http://www.harbingerproaudio.com/pro...=450&width=704 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 That's probably the same speaker, with a different logo. I was "given" a 200w Harbinger 15" APS-15 as a "free bonus" when I bought my PreSonus StudioLive-24 from Musicians' Friend,, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I didn't even open the box when it arrived. I sold it to cover the price of my shipping costs. I wouldn't be caught dead using that stuff "Live"; these really are "toys". They're ok for noodling around at home if you're not to critical, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note That's probably the same speaker, with a different logo.I was "given" a 200w Harbinger 15" APS-15 as a "free bonus" when I bought my PreSonus StudioLive-24 from Musicians' Friend,, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I didn't even open the box when it arrived. I sold it to cover the price of my shipping costs. I wouldn't be caught dead using that stuff "Live"; these really are "toys". They're ok for noodling around at home if you're not to critical, but that's about it. So, you would not be the one to get an informed, nonbiased review from, then...OK.OTOH, there are folks who use the unit and give it excellent reviews, so long as they (to quote Dak) "used the system as it's designed to be used". Were I looking for a small-venue solo-act system, I'd certainly give it a try, w/ an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 It seems most that would buy a cheap speaker wouldn't have much experience with more expensive speakers. I believe the excellent reviews are coming from those that didn't do an a/b test with a pro quality speaker because they are newbies or lack funds for quality. I'm saying this because I acquired a cheap ass powered speaker once that I thought sounded pretty good at first. Later on I A/B'd it against a Mackie srm450 and realized that the cheap speaker had shrill highs and distorted lows. It's possible that Powerwerks has decent speakers for the price, but you definitely get what you pay for with speakers, generally speaking. Listen and compare before buying IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Terry Allan Hall So, you would not be the one to get an informed, nonbiased review from, then...OK.OTOH, there are folks who use the unit and give it excellent reviews, so long as they (to quote Dak) "used the system as it's designed to be used". Were I looking for a small-venue solo-act system, I'd certainly give it a try, w/ an open mind. Terry, I agree with what Bob Dey just posted. Reviews are usually not worth the paper (or the screen) they're written on, unless the reviewer specifically states his/her prior experience with "other" speakers. Most of these "glowing" reviews are cherry-picked,,, and are from folks who want to justify their purchases. I'd really like to see "follow-up" reviews, once they've lived with them for a while.A guy on another forum once called me (and a few others) a snob, for putting down this level of speaker. He went ahead and bought his speakers, and guess what,,,,, he quickly bought and installed a replacement set of high-frequency drivers, because the cheap piezo drivers that came with his speakers sounded so bad. Of course, he never came back to tell us "snobs" that maybe we were right all along, nor did he follow-up that thread, and tell the readers about changing his high-frequency drivers. He told me through a private email.That "free bonus" 200w Harbinger APS15 that I got rid of sounded like crap. Sure, it made "sound", but it was thin, and hollow, and the output didn't seem to be anywhere near 200 watts. It sounded like a plastic boom-box, with no bottom-end. Everything about it looked and felt "cheap", and it sounded "cheap" too. I'm serious when I say I wouldn't be caught dead playing out with speakers like that. A friend of mine bought the speaker, and he's ok with it, He uses it in his workshop, to listen to the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note I was "given" a 200w Harbinger 15" APS-15 as a "free bonus" when I bought my PreSonus StudioLive-24 from Musicians' Friend,, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I didn't even open the box when it arrived. Originally Posted by Bobby1Note That "free bonus" 200w Harbinger APS15 that I got rid of sounded like crap. Sure, it made "sound", but it was thin, and hollow, and the output didn't seem to be anywhere near 200 watts. It sounded like a plastic boom-box, with no bottom-end. Everything about it looked and felt "cheap", and it sounded "cheap" too. I'm serious when I say I wouldn't be caught dead playing out with speakers like that. A friend of mine bought the speaker, and he's ok with it, He uses it in his workshop, to listen to the radio. I'm curious how you know so much about how the speaker looked and sounded when you didn't even open the box when it arrived? Not being funny, I just want to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 My buddy and I tested it of course, before he bought it. We plugged in a few items as I recall, possibly a mic and a guitar. I also sold him one of my compact mixers that day, a lil' Soundcraft Compact4. The following week, I went to his place, to listen to his set-up, and he had it in his shop, connected to his shop-radio. He had told me he wanted it for his electric-guitar, but he hasn't tried that yet, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note My buddy and I tested it of course, before he bought it. We plugged in a few items as I recall, possibly a mic and a guitar. I also sold him one of my compact mixers that day, a lil' Soundcraft Compact4. The following week, I went to his place, to listen to his set-up, and he had it in his shop, connected to his shop-radio. He had told me he wanted it for his electric-guitar, but he hasn't tried that yet, as far as I know. Okay, thanks. I were cornfused for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Gary, I should point out that the last thing I needed, was another PA speaker, especially something like that Harbinger. I've got eight Yorkville NX55P's, four Yorkville EF500PB's, a pair of Yorkville Unity U15P's, a pair of Yorkville LS720P subs, and a pair of Yorkville LS801P subs. These speakers are in a completely different league. That 15" Harbinger couldn't remotely approach one of the NX55P's in output, punch, dynamic-range,or clarity. Not even close. If I were starting over from scratch, and looking for a decent 12" PA speaker for not much money, I'd probably take a look at a Yorkville NX25P. It's not as powerful as the NX55P, but it's got a clean output, and it's built like a tank. Yorkville really stands behind their products too. It'll do double-duty, as FOH for a small venue, or as a floor monitor.. That's an entry-level "pro-grade" speaker, and a much smarter buy imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here's a "manufacturer-refurbed NX25P, with full warranty, for $385. or "make an offer."http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yorkville-NX...-/300767397406 For someone looking for a single 12" loudspeaker, with a terrific bottom-end, it's really hard to beat the Yorkville NX55P. It's a very versatile box, if used within it's limitations. (that's true for any box) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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