Jump to content

Lost In The Sea Of Modern Small Room P.A. Gear


ggm1960

Recommended Posts

  • Members

I'm hoping the band I'm currently playing keys in will find a replacement soon and then I'll start a scaled back duo/trio project with my wife and a bass player friend. We'll be more eclectic (for this area anyway) than any bands I'm aware of. I will mostly play guitar (acoustic, maybe even some electric) but also some keys (likely just bring the Krome 61) while my wife will mostly play keyboards along with some flute and the Akai EWI-5000 (electronic wind instrument) I plan to get her for her 4/15 birthday. I'll be the primary lead vocal but the wife and bass player will also front on a few and we'll all be singing backup harmonies.

 

I'm looking at the sea of current PA systems that appear to be designed for smaller groups like ours and trying to sort out what might be best for my type of music project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members
What are you running keys through? They both need the same thing - full range clean power.

 

How big are the rooms?

 

Well I have a couple keyboard amps we can use if we think we need to, the rooms will probably be small to mid-size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I use the turbosound iP1000 system two of them with a separate mixer. Works like a charm with a 4 piece (electronic drums,keyboards/bass, guitar & vocalist). And I have been able to project just fine in concert an a golf course where the audience was about 25 yards from the band.

The JBL EON ONE has its own mixer. These type of systems make it much simpler. With the systems like the QSC K12.2s you will probably need to add monitors or in-ear monitors. The column array or 'stick' systems project very well around the room vs the point source systems that drop off fairly quickly the further back you go. The QSC are great systems, but for great sound and simplicity I prefer the column arrays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The JBL EON ONE has its own mixer. These type of systems make it much simpler. With the systems like the QSC K12.2s you will probably need to add monitors or in-ear monitors. The column array or 'stick' systems project very well around the room vs the point source systems that drop off fairly quickly the further back you go. The QSC are great systems, but for great sound and simplicity I prefer the column arrays.

 

Yes, simple is a key word for this project and I've just been looking at the JBL eon one pro system. It appears a bit more robust with 4 channels that we can stick XLR dynamic mics into. We really don't want to mess with a monitor setup and we can experiment to see if we can also plug-in/sub-mix instruments or whether we'll want small amps for those. Thanks for the insight!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It was a good amp. But I used it for a PA mostly because that's what I had. Way too heavy and not loud enough to cut through in a full band as a keyboard amp. When it clipped it was nasty. Sold it and bought a single EV ZLX-12P and haven't looked back. I lost the stereo feature but the sound is great, super loud, and it's only 35 pounds. And for solo work, I put it under the keyboard and plug the mic in the other input and bingo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, I think the EON ONE will probably work just fine for what you want to do. My system runs everything into the iP1000's I was especially impressed with the sound on my FA-08. I never could find a keyboard amp that sounded good on acoustic piano. Another nice thing about these systems, they are light compared to most keyboard amps. About 15 lbs lighter than the Motion Sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Yes, simple is a key word for this project and I've just been looking at the JBL eon one pro system. It appears a bit more robust with 4 channels that we can stick XLR dynamic mics into. We really don't want to mess with a monitor setup and we can experiment to see if we can also plug-in/sub-mix instruments or whether we'll want small amps for those. Thanks for the insight!

 

118 maximum SPL makes this a no go for anyone who wants to be pro. The QSC or Yamaha speakers I mentioned earlier would be over twice as loud. So unless you are never planning on playing gigs for more than 50 people buy something worth owning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

All the places I play that expect 50 plus will provide there own PA to plug into. Therefore a decent line array would be just the ticket for me. In fact from what I have read a couple of mains powered line arrays would cover most eventualities for me.

Having said that I went the Yamaha speaker on a stick route for smaller gigs, I still hanker after a line array both for load in /out convenience, coverage, monitoring and the fact that I think it looks better on a smaller stage.

Of course ymmv.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The OP plays acoustic, "maybe some electric". No drums mentioned, or percussion of any sort. I'm running LH bass, piano/organ, and vocals through one EV SxA250 (15" 350W rms) . . . . outside! It's more than adequate. I wish I had something smaller for typical restaurant gigs.

 

But I don't know what this particular acoustic trio considers a normal playing volume. Buy a decibel meter and find out. Then buy what you need.

 

I've seen several acoustic trios up here that use no amplification at all. You can hear the singing just fine. Doesn't work everywhere; just sayin' . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

My two TurboSound iP1000 are rated 122 dB SPL each. If that were goal I could damage the hearing of 50 people. QSC speakers are loud because they need to be. The reason I like my speakers is I don't HAVE to crank them. Their drop off is way less the further back you go so they don't need to be as loud. Their horizontal dispersion is 120 degrees vs 75 for the QSC. One issue I have always had with 2 way speakers over the years is you have the audience in front telling you to turn down and the ones in the back telling you to turn up. Then rooms of irregular shape were awful, you sound fine on the dance floor but in an L shaped room one group hears crap if anything. Usually all they get is kick drum and bass. In a small to medium room I can use just one and still fill the room with sound. As I stated previously, I have played these out doors at a golf course for about 200 people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

118 maximum SPL makes this a no go for anyone who wants to be pro. The QSC or Yamaha speakers I mentioned earlier would be over twice as loud. So unless you are never planning on playing gigs for more than 50 people buy something worth owning.

 

I'm already in a "pro" band that has a sound company on hire for every gig, some of which get pretty huge but I'm talking about a completely different thing here and that's why I'm posting in this forum.

 

He was kinda joking......maybe.....but recently an old pro gave me some advice; he said, "never buy an amp that your wife can't carry". :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
The OP plays acoustic, "maybe some electric". No drums mentioned, or percussion of any sort. I'm running LH bass, piano/organ, and vocals through one EV SxA250 (15" 350W rms) . . . . outside! It's more than adequate. I wish I had something smaller for typical restaurant gigs.

 

But I don't know what this particular acoustic trio considers a normal playing volume. Buy a decibel meter and find out. Then buy what you need.

 

I've seen several acoustic trios up here that use no amplification at all. You can hear the singing just fine. Doesn't work everywhere; just sayin' . . .

 

For certain the most important thing is some PA for our vocals. We can bring small amps for instruments, in fact, my wife and I often just run our stuff (keys, flute, ac gtr) through the same little Roland keyboard amp at jams and open mics already. This is a total for-fun project and that requires keeping it small and simple.

 

I've already done my time in the band business where I had all this PA gear with huge speakers, mixers, monitors, power amps and all that crap. I sold all that stuff and won't be going back there. From here on out any bigger projects I choose to get involved in will provide PA support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

With keys I would think you need some power that is lightweight, and a way to monitor. I’d get 4 powered 12s, best you can afford, a couple of poles, and a small mixer with some minimal effects. You could get by at minimum with 2 speakers and 1 pole for very small rooms bu that’s a lot of sources going thru one front speaker. I’d rather have 2 and spread out the sound more. One monitor maybe but 2 would be much better. Then you could dispense with all the amps and everybody just go direct. Bass would need a Sansamp or something, etc guitar could use an amp imulation box like the Tech21 stuff, acoustic Preamp for the ac guitar. Keys could go straight in, no idea about the electrical wind thingy interface need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
My two TurboSound iP1000 are rated 122 dB SPL each. If that were goal I could damage the hearing of 50 people. QSC speakers are loud because they need to be. The reason I like my speakers is I don't HAVE to crank them. Their drop off is way less the further back you go so they don't need to be as loud. Their horizontal dispersion is 120 degrees vs 75 for the QSC. One issue I have always had with 2 way speakers over the years is you have the audience in front telling you to turn down and the ones in the back telling you to turn up. Then rooms of irregular shape were awful' date=' you sound fine on the dance floor but in an L shaped room one group hears crap if anything. Usually all they get is kick drum and bass. In a small to medium room I can use just one and still fill the room with sound. As I stated previously, I have played these out doors at a golf course for about 200 people.[/quote']

 

The people whose hearing you will damage is the band. When you are trying to be cheap and use the pole speakers as monitors as well as mains then when you need to cover a big audience your band is getting pummeled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
With keys I would think you need some power that is lightweight' date=' and a way to monitor. I’d get 4 powered 12s, best you can afford, a couple of poles, and a small mixer with some minimal effects. You could get by at minimum with 2 speakers and 1 pole for very small rooms bu that’s a lot of sources going thru one front speaker. I’d rather have 2 and spread out the sound more. One monitor maybe but 2 would be much better. Then you could dispense with all the amps and everybody just go direct. Bass would need a Sansamp or something, etc guitar could use an amp imulation box like the Tech21 stuff, acoustic Preamp for the ac guitar. Keys could go straight in, no idea about the electrical wind thingy interface need.[/quote']

 

This would be my typical default option and I really do like the idea however right now I'm still leaning towards the stick/bass option maybe just because it seems so simple and I haven't had the opportunity to try that kind of system yet. I've seen and heard a number of musical comrades using these "stick" systems and I've noticed they seem to sound good after they get them dialed in right.

 

I'm kind of excited about the "electrical wind thingy" because my wife already plays flute and this will open up a whole world of other sounds. It will be arriving today and it's a birthday gift that she'll certainly need to open early! It's the Akai EWI 5000; a wind instrument that is a stand alone synthesizer (rather than just a controller). This fairly recent model is wireless (audio to receiver) along with the typical features of USB MIDI out and so forth. I'm fairly confident that she'll be able to run it through the same amp or source that her keyboard will play through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The people whose hearing you will damage is the band. When you are trying to be cheap and use the pole speakers as monitors as well as mains then when you need to cover a big audience your band is getting pummeled.

 

That makes the assumption I don't have a set of monitors. You can always put them in front of you like any other speaker. What I'm saying is in most cases you don't need them. The OP said he needs it for small gigs. It is not trying to be cheap that is another assumption. Personally I like the 120 degree dispersion, and the fact that the drop off is less. And the sound is very good. I own four powered speakers (JBL EON 615) and two 18 inch Carvin subs. I haven't had to drag them out since I bought these. It was OVERKILL for most everything. Our golf course gig made that quite apparent. We have never been pummeled by them. Your in solo and duo section, how many solo and duo's are playing large venues? Not many and the ones that do usually aren't using their own equipment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
I'm surprised to not see comments about the Bose or JBL "stick" systems that seem popular around here and supposedly eliminate the need for monitors.

 

Bose...well, all I will say is if you have the money, go ahead. Some people love them, some people remain unimpressed.

I have only heard the JBL line array demo'd at NAMM and frankly, in that cavernous hall with the constant cacophony, it didn't seem to cut through at all....but it might be great in a smaller more intimate setting.

I still like my SA220 'Fishstick', but it really was not designed for keyboard reproduction, it is optimized for acoustic guitar and human voice, which both occupy the same spectrum.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

That makes the assumption I don't have a set of monitors. You can always put them in front of you like any other speaker. What I'm saying is in most cases you don't need them. The OP said he needs it for small gigs. It is not trying to be cheap that is another assumption. Personally I like the 120 degree dispersion, and the fact that the drop off is less. And the sound is very good. I own four powered speakers (JBL EON 615) and two 18 inch Carvin subs. I haven't had to drag them out since I bought these. It was OVERKILL for most everything. Our golf course gig made that quite apparent. We have never been pummeled by them. Your in solo and duo section, how many solo and duo's are playing large venues? Not many and the ones that do usually aren't using their own equipment.

 

Well if your turbosound is enough for your 4 piece band with electronic drums I guess we have different ideas of enough rig for the gig. My 4 piece country band would be using 4 QSC 181 subs and 4 JBL PRX535s out doors. I really don't see how the subs on the turbosound would make a electronic kick drum or bass guitar sound anywhere near as good as an 18inch subwoofer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...