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jazz chords for the masses


pogo97

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In another thread senorblues mentioned playing "funny chords" as a detriment to getting gigs, along with "being old" and some other deal killers.

 

My figuring is that if the song suggests richer chords, then you use them. The audience at hand (or, more likely, the manager) might find those a bit challenging, and we don't want to challenge the customers, do we?

 

I play "jazz-age jazz," which ranges from "Happy Days are Here Again," which has very simple harmony, to "I Thought About You" which looks like this:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"I thought.jpg","data-attachmentid":32189150}[/ATTACH]

 

If I was playing country (but not western swing) I'd probably stick to nothing past a seventh or even nothing but triads (especially on guitar). But in general, I try to give songs an accompaniment that makes me happy. And some folks, the ones who come back to see me again, respect that.

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The lead sheet you offer would be fine in some venues up here but only because there is a demand - a small one - for jazz standards. Real Book gigs, mostly. Some guys can sight read altered chords in any key; some offer simplified versions based on their skill, training, experience, etc.

 

What I'm wondering is how dissonant chords relate to genre preference. Consider which genres use the following "V" chords as a default: V, V7, V7+5, V9, V9sus, V+9+5, V13 . . . you get the idea.

 

I don't expect everyone to offer a repertoire that includes all the above, but I am curious to know if any of you have opinions about what kinds of harmonies you have payed or heard in the venues you've worked, and which ones would definitely get you removed from the rotation

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yes, it is about genre. With my blues band, we do a lot of swing style, so we play [the kb player and myself] a wide range of chord voicings. With the Jazz/horn band, well, no choice, although I tend to play mainly triads 'cut' from the larger voiced chords so as to not step on the horns or the keys...an ongoing challenge as our arrangements are not written out [crazy, but it works]. In my solo act, anything goes... diminished, augmented, b5, M7, 13, +5, +7...whatever the song needs to sound good...I am admittedly not really a jazz guitarist by any stretch of the imagination, but I do understand the chord structures...

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So what defines a genre? If you search Youtube for "Unchain My Heart", you'll find Joe Cocker, Ray Charles, Nancy Wilson, Billy Preston, Johnny Winter, Trini Lopez, and Willie Nelson w/ Wynton Marsalis, among others. A comparison between the first two is noteworthy, especially since they were both big hits.

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I'd say "Unchain My Heart" is a torch song if that's a genre. "Genre" is a word that means different things depending on your perspective and whether you're marketing plasticware or thinking about the threads of meaning that pass through all music. Lump things how they work for you.

 

Back to chords, are the chords similar across those versions and if not, how and maybe why.

 

How do the chords tell you who the players are and who they're playing for?

 

(I'd check but I'm listening to a Guy Lombardo TV show and thinking about what makes this not-jazz and yet how much it shares with jazz of the time -- like repertory, harmony, orchestration,some aspects of syncopation.)

 

When I'm doing my jazz-age jazz schtick, it's 1948 and I'm "Harvey Lloyd," a middle-aged guy who plays and sings pretty well but never made it out of Gananoque Ontario Canada. That's in my head -- I don't tell anybody. But you won't hear me playing like it's 1963 and I've been listening to Cecil Taylor for the past week. I might play "Alexander's Ragtime Band" as though it was a bit later than 1912. Harmonies are a big part of that.

 

As Notes says: "There is more than one way to do this."

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This song belonged to Ray Charles even though he didn't write it. He's often described as the guy who corrupted gospel by taking the form into the bawdy blues arena. His arrangements are clearly jazz influenced, so when Joe Cocker covered it as a R&R tune, the second chord had to be changed from a bVI to a iv. For me, that one change puts you in a different genre. So does the change from a latin groove to four-on-the-floor.

 

What I have suspected from a layman's perspective is that instrumentation is a significant part of the equation. Banjo = bluegrass. Distorted guitar = R&R. steel guitar = country. Piano = ??? lounge? I know it's not that simple, but I'm convinced it's part of the discussion.

 

I like your "Harvey Lloyd" idea. I wonder why you keep it to yourself, rather than perhaps making it part of your marketing.

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I like your "Harvey Lloyd" idea. I wonder why you keep it to yourself' date=' rather than perhaps making it part of your marketing.[/quote']

 

Haven't got the wardrobe down yet and I'm too old. I think, too, that my following like me to be who I am with my passion for that music, and not a fictitious character.

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Every once in a while I play I Thought About You, but I play probably what would be consid3red the "modern changes". The above changes look a little straight to me.

 

// Bb7 A7 / Ab7 G7 / C9 / Gm7 C9 /

/ Cm Cm/Bb /Amb5 D7 / Gm Gbm / Fm Bb7 /

 

/ Ebmaj7 / Ebm7 / Bbmaj7 / Bbmaj /

Em7b5 A7 / Em7b5 A7 / Dm7 Dbm7 / Cm7 F13 /

 

/ Bb7 A7 / Ab7 G7 / C9 / Gm7 C9 /

/ Cm Cm/Bb /Amb5 D7 / Gm Gbm / Fm Bb7 /

 

/ Ebmaj7 / Ebm7 / Bbmaj7 A7 / Ab7 G7 /

/ C9 / F7sus4 F7 / Bb Gm /Cm F13 //

 

No fancy sounding chords, but it is a Jazz swing tune, and so I would never play this where folks wanted to hear Wonderwall or Wagon Wheel. Gotta pick your battles. OTOH, sometimes I don't listen to my own advice, and last week I decided to try The Nightfly (Donald Fagen tune). OMG it went over worse than I could ever imagine. I spent eight hours resequencing and learning a tune that can instantly suck the life out of a room. In fact it goes over even worse than I.G.Y. and The Goodbye Look.You wanna talk about some outside sounding chords and melody. It's one of my favourite tunes and I love the lyrics, but for the Sweet Caroline crowd it probably sounds like Frank Zappa playing Stravinsky.

 

[video=youtube;6Cd9YJvoQIg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cd9YJvoQIg

 

 

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Don't "Sweet Caroline" and "I Thought about You" have the same rhythm and tempo? I would say it's the turnarounds, and especially the 7b5 chords, that separate a jazz standard from modern pop. About "Nightfly" . . . for me, it's the wandering song form that throws you off, along with what could be thought of as time changes! I'll bet "Rikki" would have gone over, although I prefer "Peg", "Pretzel Logic", "Home at Last", "Black Friday", "Don't Take Me Alive" and a few more that I've played that have gone over pretty well, actually.

 

How about this one . . . . ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwUswWA7cRc

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Frank Zappa playing Stravinsky

 

That would be horrible. Maybe Frank Zappa playing Schoenberg, which would also be horrible, but a better fit. I like Stravinsky.

 

My music is best understood by children and animals.

Igor Stravinsky

 

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The only standards I have played much lately is "Summertime" & "Georgia On My Mind", on piano. When I was in High School (1970's) I played guitar in a swing band it was quite fun. It took me a while with a book to learn all the chords. After awhile they began to look like algebra formulas. But the book I had made it fairly simple to figure out which fingerings worked the best for me. I remember my band teacher said I was the only one he ever had that played the chords as written. Later learning piano really helped me learn intervals and theory.

 

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Every once in a while I play I Thought About You, but I play probably what would be considered the "modern changes". The above changes look a little straight to me.

 

// Bb7 A7 / Ab7 G7 / C9 / Gm7 C9 /

/ Cm Cm/Bb /Amb5 D7 / Gm Gbm / Fm Bb7 /

 

/ Ebmaj7 / Ebm7 / Bbmaj7 / Bbmaj /

Em7b5 A7 / Em7b5 A7 / Dm7 Dbm7 / Cm7 F13 /

 

/ Bb7 A7 / Ab7 G7 / C9 / Gm7 C9 /

/ Cm Cm/Bb /Amb5 D7 / Gm Gbm / Fm Bb7 /

 

/ Ebmaj7 / Ebm7 / Bbmaj7 A7 / Ab7 G7 /

/ C9 / F7sus4 F7 / Bb Gm /Cm F13 //

 

 

I ran through your changes and mine and, to be honest, although there are a few differences, they sound functionally the same to me. It may be that the important difference between "modern" and "not-modern" in this case would have more to do with voice leading, voicing, rhythm and sound ideals. In the examples below (I looked for but couldn't find a piano-based version from 1939) the big difference is that the first is a dance arrangement and the second is a concert arrangement. And that has to do with the evolving role of jazz in society.

 

[video=youtube;BWP_Gv9WBEI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWP_Gv9WBEI

 

[video=youtube;ddyiaRmFiN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddyiaRmFiN4

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I guess sometime in the 1950's (probably before) guys started taking "straight" changes, ones that hopped around a lot and/or sounded square, and started substituting a whole lot of II V's. For example, in your first video the verse changes (more or less) start with:

/ Db C / Cb Bb / Eb / Eb / Gb / Ab F / Bbm / and so on. However if I called that tune with the typical jazzers that I know they would substitute Ebm Ebm/Db / Cm7b5 F7 / Bbm / for the Gb to Ab section. So instead of a major chord Gb you would play the relative minor Ebm. Instead of the Ab chord you would play Cm7b5 which is also Ab9. It's all about the root...

 

Oddly enough, the neo-soul guys and gals are taking Motown tunes and dropping chords to give it a "fresh" sound. To me it sounds strange, probably like the II V substitutions sounded to the traditional Jazz folk.

 

another somewhat interesting thing about the whole II V thing is that even songs that had those changes, and of course there were many, people started dropping chords that repeated. So if a section went / Gm C / Gm C / you would just play gm for a bar and C for a bar, to give it an updated sound.

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The lead sheet you offer would be fine in some venues up here but only because there is a demand - a small one - for jazz standards. Real Book gigs, mostly. Some guys can sight read altered chords in any key; some offer simplified versions based on their skill, training, experience, etc.

 

What I'm wondering is how dissonant chords relate to genre preference. Consider which genres use the following "V" chords as a default: V, V7, V7+5, V9, V9sus, V+9+5, V13 . . . you get the idea.

 

I don't expect everyone to offer a repertoire that includes all the above, but I am curious to know if any of you have opinions about what kinds of harmonies you have payed or heard in the venues you've worked, and which ones would definitely get you removed from the rotation

 

Bottom line: you are there for the audience, to entertain them and make them thirsty. If the crowd in the room is sleeping through your version of 'Misty', then you need to be aware that you need to throw the change-up pitch, warm up your fastball, and get your head back in the game before the coach yanks you and puts a reliever in, and benches you indefinitely...

 

Don't blame the room, examine your own approach. Playing what you like is not necessarily going to make the room groove. The ability to read the audience is a major aspect of showmanship, something many musicians just don't get. I work with a lot of road warriors, studio guys, etc, and frankly they are better musicians than I will ever be, but they are not front men, they are journeymen sidemen, and the whole 'entertainment' thing is secondary to them behind their performance as a musician. Some eventually make the transition, but most don't.

 

I'll say this: I would rather see an entertainer who puts on an amusing or charming show, but is not top notch on their instrument than the greatest musician in the world who just plays their instrument like a virtuoso and doesn't relate to the audience.

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Where to start. . . .

 

There are different kinds of solo gigs, no? Pat Coast plays wallpaper gigs which allows him to play whatever he wants. The dinner gigs I've played seem to be pretty much the same inasmuch as interaction from me, especially early in the evening, feels like I'm imposing.

 

Play what they want . . . how does that explain the significant number of "singer songwriters" who get gigs playing mostly their own not particularly catchy tunes?

 

I agree with you about "Misty". I figured out the the slow jazz ballads had to go pretty early on.

 

The biggest issue really isn't changes and progressions . . . It's instrumentation. There's no point in my covering guitar standards, especially given that there are a lot of popular tunes out there that suit how I play, but I still keep wondering how much latitude I have with harmony if the genre is in keeping with what they're expecting? The Bonnie Raitt cover of Mose Allison's tune is a good example. So is the Ray Charles version of "Unchain My Heart". If the answer is guitar players and "Wagon Wheel", then we've reached an impasse.

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Last Wednesday I got three requests: two that I could play. A family came in and mom started dancing to whatever I was playing and she asked for some 50s girl pop thing (I honestly forget what) that I didn't know so I apologised and suggested something a bit older. Her next try was "Shenandoah." Much older than most of my stuff, but I know it because it's so pure and beautiful. I like pure and beautiful. So I played and sang it. Beautifully -- I put my heart into everything I play. She was very happy. The second request was from a couple for "The Way You Look Tonight." I sang it as romantically as a fellow possibly could. They were very happy.

 

I love it when I can connect like that -- and know that I'm connecting. Most listeners turn inward while they're connecting to a song, so it can be a bit hard to read. That's okay, they thank me on the way out.

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