New speakers - they sound great.

[Notes_Norton]

I play my share of outdoor gigs. We play at a certain yacht club 4 times a year, two of them are outdoors in a big parking lot.

 

A couple of weeks ago, it was threatening rain, so they put us in a pavilion about 100' away from the lot where the party was (food and drink vendors roped off dance sections, and plenty of lawn chairs.). That was nice and safe, but our Carvin PM15A 450W speakers barely made it. I had to turn the bass down to keep from distorting.

 

So we bought new speakers. I ended up with Electro-Voice ZLX-15P. Very expensive but 1,000 Watts. They sound much, much, much better - even at low volumes. The sound is tighter, more focused and with greater definition. I can hear subtle parts I put into my tracks that I haven't heard since I made the tracks in my studio.

 

They cost twice as much as my old Carvins, so they should definitely sound better, but they sound much more than twice as good. If you need clean sound and occasional high volume, check these out.

 

I'll be selling the Carvins -- locally I hope so I don't have to deal with shipping.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Bob Dey]

EV has a good reputation for great sounding speakers. I've owned a few of them, still have a pair of SX100a. I just bought a single JBL eon 610 because I wanted something lighter weight. It also sounds very good.

[Notes_Norton]

There is something to be said about light weight. And I come from the era where we schlepped Voice Of The Theater cabinets and real >400 pound Hammond B3 organs. Smaller can indeed be better.

 

The EV speakers weigh close to 40 pounds each. That's better than the old plywood cabinets of years past. They are about the same weight as the Carvins I replaced.

 

Digital amps on the back of those speakers are much lighter than their old analog cousins. And I remember vacuum tube amps with huge step-up transformers.

 

But I play backing tracks that I make myself, Leilani sings, plays guitar and synth and I sing, play sax, guitar, flute and sometimes keyboard. Everything goes through the PA, I use amp simulator pedals for the guitars, and we have 4 synth modules in the rack.

 

When setting up and/or tearing down, I sometimes think about what I want to leave home. The stuff is heavy and there is a lot of it, and a lot of cables to hook up. And that's time consuming. So I ask myself, "Saxophone" - definitely not I've been playing that since Junior High school and it is an extension of me. "Flute?" Well it's small and light. "Guitar?" It's my newest friend and so much fun as I'm still in the part of the learning curve where I discover new delights. "Wind synth?" Definitely not it adds a variety of voices to our gig, trumpet, trombone, different sax voices, synth sounds, harmonica, etc., and being sax-like mechanically I can play guitar parts that I'm not able to do on the guitar yet. And I've been bringing a drum controller because it's small (Korg PadKontrol) that's fun to play when I'm singing and playing sax solos giving me something to do with my hands while singing (they like to play too).

 

So I most often leave the keyboard home, sometimes I wish I could have brought my old friend the bass, but the bass never comes with me.

 

Getting back on track. The EVs sound great, and I'll be loading them in the van for tonights gig.

 

Notes

[pogo97]

Good choice, Notes. I have a single Electro-Voice ZLX-12P that I set under my stage piano just to bump the power up a bit. Great speaker. About 35 pounds and 1000 watts. I plug the piano straight into it and it sounds dandy. Next week, I think I'll try plugging a mic into the second channel. Someday I'll buy a second one and go stereo.

 

edit: I should add that after almost four years (I bought them in February of 2014) of gigging and jamming with this speaker I can report *no* reliability issues. Plug it in, it works.

[Notes_Norton]

Thanks. The reliability report is good to hear.

 

In my 3.5 years with the Carvins, I've had no problems. They were just underpowered for outdoor big parking lot gigs. But now that I got the EV's I'm glad. They sound much better at lower volumes.

 

I can't tell without removing the grill, but I think they may be airtight cabinets while the Carvins are bass reflex. That might make the difference in the tightness and focus of the sound.

 

Anyway, we gigged with them last night and I'm utterly delighted with them.

 

I haven't had time to clean up the Carvins and put them up for sale yet. January is a busy gigging month in Florida, but when I do, I hope to find a new home for them with a reasonable return on my initial investment.

 

Notes

[daddymack]

well, first: Congrats on the upgrade.

The Carvin's at 450 watts [actually, IIRC, these were only rated at 400 originally back around 2013] were underpowered for outdoor work, which is why you had to drive them so hard. Yes, you paid a lot more for the EVs, but you got a much better and more efficient pair of full range speakers now, and they will last for a long time.

I too used to schlep VotT cabs, JBL 1x18 cabs, 2x15 bass cabs and 4x12 Marshall cabs when I was a younger man...a much younger man.

[pogo97]

So we bought new speakers. I ended up with Electro-Voice ZLX-15P. Very expensive but 1,000 Watts.

 

I'm surprised you call them expensive. But when I was looking I was comparing it with towers. Now these are starting to get expensive.

[Notes_Norton]

Expensive for a duo. Especially since there is so much cheap competition and fewer gig days available. Karaoke jocks pretending to play for less, open mic nights, and so on.

 

Plus I have to add guitar, sax, flute, synth modules, and so on.

 

Yes, they are expensive. In context. And at 61lbs or >27kg fugettaboutit

[pogo97]

One of my frustrations is that I, as a "does nothing but music" guy, can't afford to buy the snazzy kit that some "it's a hobby, I have a good paying job/pension" gig with. On the other hand, I have the privilege (and discipline) to focus on woodshedding/practicing/rehearsing/listening. We make choices. We get consequences.

[Notes_Norton]

So true.

 

I had two day gigs in my lifetime. Phone repairman and Cable TV engineer - always gigging on weekends when I had the day gigs. The problem with being a weekend warrior is I couldn't get the quality of musicianship as I did when I was in an almost-famous, full-time band.

 

I hated the phone job so I didn't stay long. The work was OK, the local management from Southern Bell at the time was tyrannical. Management looked at labor as the enemy and treated us that way.

 

Cable TV Engineer was nice. I worked 3 days a week, flew out on the Monday red-eye, back on the Thursday red-eye. But they laid off up to 15 years. I was one of the first to go with not quite 5.

 

I was happy I was laid off, because I went back to full-time gigging.

 

If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't do either of the day jobs. They were the most wasted parts of my life so far.

 

Sure there are no benefits. Sure there is no retirement. And Uncle Sam hits us up with 15% self-employment tax plus our income tax. But I'm blessed with good health, I haven't missed a gig since 1964 when I went full-time pro.

 

But I got to play with some very famous musicians and was treated like a peer, and equal instead of a fan --- I had intimate relationships with quite a few beautiful women when I was on the road as the opening act for some of the most famous groups of the day --- and the biggest bonus of all -----> instead of saying "I have to go to work today", I say, "Oh boy! I GET to go to work today!!!"

 

Yes, I have a great time at work. It's the most fun I can have with my clothes on. While other people go to work, I go to play.

 

Not that I don't work at it. But the work is done mostly at home, practicing, doubling on 7 instruments, doing my own backing tracks, plus schlepping gear to the gig. The rest is fun.

 

Life is short, and enjoying my job is the biggest bonus of them all.

 

I think it was Joseph Campbell who said that if you do for a living what you would do for free, your life is blissful. And I have followed my bliss.

 

Plus I buy new cars (but drive them until they are unreliable) Dodge price point, not Benz, I paid off and own a house 200' from the east coast of the mainland of Florida (one house between me and a 2 mile wide lagoon, then a narrow barrier island and the Atlantic), and I take vacations every year (I've been to 49 US states, most provinces of Canada, quite a few Mexican states, down to Costa Rica, Bermuda, Bahamas, three US Virgin Islands, St Martin, Jamaica, Cayman Islands, Puerto Rico, England, Scotland, Wales, Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Czech Republic, China, Morocco, and a few others that I'll remember as soon as I hit Post.

 

I'm happy, healthy, and having a great life. When I hit life's coda, I'll be able to say, "I had a great ride!!!"

[modulusman]

I play my share of outdoor gigs. We play at a certain yacht club 4 times a year, two of them are outdoors in a big parking lot.

 

A couple of weeks ago, it was threatening rain, so they put us in a pavilion about 100' away from the lot where the party was (food and drink vendors roped off dance sections, and plenty of lawn chairs.). That was nice and safe, but our Carvin PM15A 450W speakers barely made it. I had to turn the bass down to keep from distorting.

 

So we bought new speakers. I ended up with Electro-Voice ZLX-15P. Very expensive but 1,000 Watts. They sound much, much, much better - even at low volumes. The sound is tighter, more focused and with greater definition. I can hear subtle parts I put into my tracks that I haven't heard since I made the tracks in my studio.

 

They cost twice as much as my old Carvins, so they should definitely sound better, but they sound much more than twice as good. If you need clean sound and occasional high volume, check these out.

 

I'll be selling the Carvins -- locally I hope so I don't have to deal with shipping.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

If you think a $500.00 PA speaker is expensive you need to get out more.

 

[Notes_Norton]

At the rates they pay duos around here, $1,000 a pair is expensive.

[Notes_Norton]

OK, more than a month later:

 

1) I wish they would have put a handle on each side, it would make them easier to move around (Did I mention they sound great?)

 

2) The finish scuffs easily so I recommend you get the covers (Did I mention they sound great?)

 

3) The knobs could be more recessed so they don't get bump-readjusted easily (Did I mention they sound great?)

 

None of the above would be a deal killer. The sound is so much cleaner and tighter than any of our old speakers, I'm absolutely delighted with them.

 

Notes

[modulusman]

It looks like the online retailers are selling them for about $450.00 now. They are still EVs budget line so they are cheap compared to their other speakers.

[pogo97]

It looks like the online retailers are selling them for about $450.00 now. They are still EVs budget line so they are cheap compared to their other speakers.

 

_{I have a single ZLX-12P that I use for solo piano and vocal. Plug in the piano, plug in the mic, and I can fill any restaurant in town. I'd consider a second one for stereo and to point in different directions, but the single speaker is actually quite sufficient for solo. The bass is more than adequate -- I don't use tracks -- and it weighs 35 pounds.}

[modulusman]

 

_{I have a single ZLX-12P that I use for solo piano and vocal. Plug in the piano, plug in the mic, and I can fill any restaurant in town. I'd consider a second one for stereo and to point in different directions, but the single speaker is actually quite sufficient for solo. The bass is more than adequate -- I don't use tracks -- and it weighs 35 pounds.}

 

Yeah I actually prefer 10 inch speakers. I own some Yamaha DXR10s and QSC K.10.2s that seam to have plenty of low end. I will also use DXR 8s and QSC K8.2s with subs for FOH speakers. I do own Some EAW powered 15s that sound great but they were $5500.00 for the pair. I would have bought the 12 inch version but the 15s were 40% off the MAP price.

[Notes_Norton]

Since I use tracks and play for dancing, I prefer 15" woofers. The dance music is for adults, if I was doing dance music for kids, I'd probably go with a subwoofer.

 

To my ears the bass from smaller speakers doesn't have as strong a fundamental frequency and is a bit overpowered by the harmonics. That is with all other factors being equal.

 

Notes

[modulusman]

Since I use tracks and play for dancing, I prefer 15" woofers. The dance music is for adults, if I was doing dance music for kids, I'd probably go with a subwoofer.

 

To my ears the bass from smaller speakers doesn't have as strong a fundamental frequency and is a bit overpowered by the harmonics. That is with all other factors being equal.

 

Notes

 

Well my band plays for adults and we actually get paid enough to afford subwoofers and not need to rely on a cheap speaker for low frequencies.

[Notes_Norton]

I'm jealous! We are the highest paid duo in the 3 county area, and the cheapskates around here pay less than they did 10 years ago.

 

In fact, we are the only band in the 3 county area to be in "The Best Of The Treasure Coast" magazine. But that and a buck will buy a cup of coffee. http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/IndianRiverMag.pdf

 

We have been invaded by people buying karaoke tracks, some pretending to play instruments, some not, with various levels of incompetent to marginal singing that will go out for cheap. One 'trio' gets $100/night.

 

Fortunately we keep a heavy working schedule, but we haven't been able to raise our prices this century. Other duos and singles have dropped their prices. So we are doing better than most.

 

So what I paid for these speakers is top dollar, and they do sound great.

 

If my house wasn't paid for, I might move to your area where they pay decently and give you some good, friendly competition.

 

Notes

[Pat'sStrat]

 

Well my band plays for adults and we actually get paid enough to afford subwoofers and not need to rely on a cheap speaker for low frequencies.

 

You are lucky enough (or smart enough) to live in a place that still pays for live music. When my band went to Montana, either the Flathead, Missoula or the Bozeman area, we always got paid quite a bit more than here. There are a few places that will pay a band 500 a night, bit most are 300-400 a night, take it or leave it. Last time my 4 piece did Kalispell we got 750 and rooms for one night, and they apologized that it couldn't be more. .

[modulusman]

 

You are lucky enough (or smart enough) to live in a place that still pays for live music. When my band went to Montana, either the Flathead, Missoula or the Bozeman area, we always got paid quite a bit more than here. There are a few places that will pay a band 500 a night, bit most are 300-400 a night, take it or leave it. Last time my 4 piece did Kalispell we got 750 and rooms for one night, and they apologized that it couldn't be more. .

 

No money to be made in the bars. We do private gigs, weddings,and festivals that pay us between $1500-2500.

[Bob Dey]

Yes, very expensive speakers are more like thousands per speaker whether powered or passive. But today's mid level speakers are all that's needed for solos and duos playing in small to mid sized venues. There's no reason to get a 2nd mortgage to pay for new speakers!

 

My Yamaha DBR12s sound great and I don't wanna reveal how low the price was on them

[Notes_Norton]

We don't do weddings, because around here the DJ has that trade locked up, and between bridezilla and learning disposable songs the DJs can have that end of the business. That said, I do play second weddings for those not interested in all the ceremony.

 

Here is my area of Florida, the market is either the clubs corporate, or the senior market (yacht clubs, country clubs, retirement developments, and so on).

 

The clubs don't pay anything. They no longer book 6 nights, and the average will not pay more than $100 per musician no matter how good you are. We do one club lunchtime on a week day, and have been doing that for 10 years. It's an exception to the rule, but we bring in the biggest crowd of the week (on a weekday) and get paid accordingly.

 

We have an agent who feeds us corporate and "Indian Casino" gigs, but even though we are on her first call list for those, they are few and far between around here.

 

We did cruise ships for 3 years, the pay was OK but not great, but food was included. After 3 years we had enough and after a few years in the club scene we could see where it was headed around here so we drifted to the senior circuit.

 

Most of our gigs are yacht club, country club, and retirement developments, and these people are extremely frugal with their money. Some of the thriftier ones have gone to those Karaoke Jocks who buy karaoke tracks and sing along with them. We don't play the el-cheapo places, but the KJ's put other singles, duos and trios out of work that used to take those jobs making the competition for the better gigs more fierce.

 

That's the reason why we haven't been able to raise our rates since the 1990s. We have a lot of steady clients, some of which have been hiring us for decades, but we are already priced higher than all the other duos in the area, so upping our fee would not be a good idea.

 

Counting for inflation, that means our real income is slightly less than it was 20 years ago. But my house is paid for so I have no rent, just maintenance.

 

And that's why <$1k a pair speakers are expensive around here.

 

But they are worth every penny.

 

Notes

[steve mac]

I am getting by with a single Dbr 10 for most of mine, where they don't provide PA and getting great sound.

[modulusman]

Yes, very expensive speakers are more like thousands per speaker whether powered or passive. But today's mid level speakers are all that's needed for solos and duos playing in small to mid sized venues. There's no reason to get a 2nd mortgage to pay for new speakers!

 

My Yamaha DBR12s sound great and I don't wanna reveal how low the price was on them

 

I had a DBR12 for about a year and used it as a monitor and actually a bass amp a few times. I recently traded 2 DBR10s in on a QSC K8.2 The QSC sounded noticeably a lot better although the DBR10 made a great floor monitor.