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Gigging daughter: direct to source....


coursey24

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Hey guys, I used to hang out here a loooooong time ago. Things change and so do the kids, now my daughter (16) is starting to gig quite a bit as solo, acoustic act. As it becomes more regular, I find myself playing the role of rodie/sound/security/"here boy" I have a few questions for you guys who play out a lot.

 

1. Gear: I have a monster PA which I have upgraded greatly to 15" powered mains, 12" powered monitors, rack effects & processors, 16 chn mixer, blah blah blah.... it usually overkill for her restaurant gigs and teaching a high school girl to set it up is like teaching a cat to fetch. I am considering a simple stick type PA for her small venues (Fender Expo/Bose/etc...) so she can set it up herself when I cant be there and simplicity. THAT said, i have read all of the reviews for vocal processors to avoid having to have her carry a small mixer w/FX. I am looking for something with compression (because girl is OMG LOUD) and little reverb. if it has a little correction - cool. any suggestions either way? on the stick or processor?

 

2. Marketing: I've read a little about it on a couple of threads. We are working on a demo for her and a few vids.

 

3. Any other tips for a beginning 16 yo?

 

Thanks from dad....

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I think a small mixer would be as easy or easier than some of the vocal processors out there. Some small mixers also have compression.

 

I also rented and have used the Bose L1 Compact. IMO it was made for restaurants and other small venues. Light, easy to set up, and could be used without a mixer in a pinch. It can also be configured in a few different heights.

 

I personally prefer a good to average powered speaker, but I would use a Bose L1 Compact with mixer, no problem. BTW if you don't know already, I am usually a Bose basher, but the price point, simplicity, weight and sound, make the L1 Compact a viable option. YMMV.

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Welcome back Coursey, I am also looking for an easily portable line array and keep coming back to the Bose L1 series.

With regard to the mixer/effects, I feel you would struggle to do much better than the TCHelicon voicelive range. I have been a GTX user for years and recently moved to the play acoustic, just great bits of kit.

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The reverb thing kills the L1 compact, because to get reverb, you need the tone unit [mas dinero, por favor], or an external processor. A vocal/guitar processor like the TC Helicon Play Acoustic would be a good addition to the L1C set-up. There are no eq controls for the instrument input side of the L1C, so the TCHPA would be very helpful, plus it has the body-rez feature [i really like that, and was thrilled when they released it as a stand alone unit].

 

The Fish-stick [sA220] is a good option, and there are plenty of used units around. Set up? Pop it on its pole, plug it in, plug in your mic, plug in your guitar, set your level...done. Reverb on board, identical controls for both channels, feedback killer and mute on board.

There are really dozens of line array units available now, with more power and all sorts of 'features', but too many try to be too many things for too many situations, whereas the SA220 was 'purpose-built' for guitarist/singers [whereas the L1 Compact was purpose-built to compete with the SA220 at price point]. As an acoustic guitarist/vocalist who wants simplicity [with built in reverb], easy load in [has its own wheeled carry bag], this was, for me, the ideal solution.

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I use a Fishman/ Fish-stick solo amp/220.

 

It's fine for smaller coffee house and small bar work. My acoustic gets plugged into a Fishman Spectra DI and I run a Beyer mic straight into the unit.

 

I probably should grab a vocal stomp box, but I'm not sure which one I would go with.

 

 

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I use a Yamaha 12 channel powered mixer . I t has two 500 watt amps in it, one for mains and one for monitors. I use this instead of powered speakers for the simple reason that it's versatile. It has onboard compression, a graphic EQ for each amp, built in effects. But most importantly, I can use if for any gig I do- solo, with one 12" speaker/horn on a stick, or with two, or with my 15" JBL speakers, or with wo mains daisy chained and two monitors with the band, or I can run one speaker in each amp channel and control the volume and EQ of each one to suit the venue. Usually I'm set up in 10-15 minutes total. Therte are times I use a powered speaker and a board, but the speaker is a 15/horn and it's pretty big, so I don't very often.

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Pat, you are a 6'+ guy, she is a 16 year old girl. Hauling speakers plus a powered mixer is what her father is trying to have her avoid...re-read the OP: he has all that stuff, but he wants something she can set up by herself, simple and quick.

 

I have 2 600W Altos, a Yamaha mixer, hotspots, etc, but I don't recommend this rig for a young lady doing solo acoustic work...and it isn't what I use for solo acoustic. If it was all I had, I would, sure, but this is not about me, or you, but what would work for this girl.

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Many many years ago I made the rounds at some small bars and coffee houses with a hood friend of mine and all we. All we used was a Fender Passport 250.

 

I added better mics ( 2 sm 58's), 2 ultimate speaker stands and 2 mic stands.

 

I believe Fender still makes the Passport stuff too.

 

yep

http://shop.fender.com/en-US/sound-systems/

 

 

The speakers fold up into the pa and it was a heavy awkward unit to haul too far, but manageable. Good thing we always were able to park close.

 

I still have my Passport 250. It not very deep in the bass department, but perfect for what I was doing. They have since changed it too, and it probably even better.

 

The old one claced the cover with a thicker padded one that fender sold as an option.

 

It never failed me either.

 

It might be worth looking into. You will need to physically try it and see if it works for ay.

 

Mine was in the grey color, but here's what it is.

250_006.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could set up in 5-10 minutes

 

[video=youtube;2CYtfvzr8Z4]

 

[video=youtube;wVMr7V7Dons]

 

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Oddly, they don't demo carrying this thing upstairs....and of course, gotta go but sticks for it...I will say they have made immense improvements over the years to the passport line, but they still tend to go too light on the amps.

 

'with a hood friend of mine'...so, where is he now, prison?

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I like the AER Compact 60 as well for portability when outdoor/busking [if there is power available], just enough juice to push you some distance. I know a few people who are using that amp....including Tommy Emmanuel ;)

However, it is pricey [around US$1200], and you still need to get it off the ground.

For the money though, I'd be likely to jut get a powered speaker or a SA220...

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Another interesting option that I have only read the literature on, but have not had a chance to try is the Fender Acoustic SFX. 160W [80 per channel], stereo, on-board reverb/chorus/delay and Vibratone [like a Leslie] and weighs in at 25lbs, retailing at around US$900. If anyone has tried one of these, please chime in!

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My rig is the TC Helicon Play Acoustic into the Fishman SA220. Nothing is perfect, but for this particular question, I think that would be pretty much perfect for her. The pedal does everything you ask for, and the PA is light, with easy-access levels and reverb to tweak for the room on the fly. That is hugely underrated. Yes, you could do all your mixing on the pedal, and it's actually intended to be used that way, but it's a lot easier to just reach over and tweak a knob than dial through a menu at your feet. YMMV obviously.

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Pat, you are a 6'+ guy, she is a 16 year old girl. Hauling speakers plus a powered mixer is what her father is trying to have her avoid...re-read the OP: he has all that stuff, but he wants something she can set up by herself, simple and quick.

 

When I play solo, I usually use one speaker that's 18" tall. 12" wide and 10" deep, a stand, a powered mixer that weighs about 20 pounds and a mic stand and a guitar. It isn't much heavier or any more difficult to set up than a line array, two trips to the car and ten minutes tops to set up. But the nice thing is I have options to mix and match with a powered mixer and passive speakers that I don't have with other systems, which is why I opted not to get a line array after I tried one. What if she wants to add other players or start a band, or play an outdoor gig where speakers have to cover a wide area and project a fair distance? Just thinkin' head. My old PA with the rack full of power amps , crossovers, EQs and the 20 channel board sits gathering dust.But I'm sure she'll find what works for her.

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Another interesting option that I have only read the literature on' date=' but have not had a chance to try is the Fender Acoustic SFX. 160W [80 per channel'], stereo, on-board reverb/chorus/delay and Vibratone [like a Leslie] and weighs in at 25lbs, retailing at around US$900. If anyone has tried one of these, please chime in!

 

 

 

I had the old Acoustic Jr amp and didn't like it at all. I sold it and then bought the SWR Cal Blonde, which was an acoustic style amp really made for the double bass, but I saw a few guys using them for guitar. The vocs on the Cal Blonde were ok, but this was in the days the acoustic amp biz was just getting underway and there wasn't' many choices out there. The SWR is pretty heavy, but rather loud. I was asked to turn down once using that SWR. I kept the amp, but that was replaced it with a much lighter Fishman Loudbox performer ( this was before the Fishman solo amp was out).

 

The Acoustic SFX is kinda newer, and I have yet to try one out, probably because I have amy acoustic amp options to choose from. The manufacturer demos I usually hate. It's more about the acoustic guitar on there demos and they spend no time on the vocal channel.

 

I dug around for a vid with someone using the second channel on the new Acoustic SFX for vocals/singing. It took a bit, but I found this.

 

I wouldn't rule it out, but in the 900 dollar range there, other options.

 

 

 

[video=youtube;fVzoiNC19LI]

 

 

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I must admit that I run my play acoustic through a mini mixer just so I can tweek things "on the fly" as although the play acoustic is well capable it's the "in the heat of the moment" adjustments are so much more easy.

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I NEVER go by the demo vids, mainly because there are so many variables involved, including post- production tweaking. Which was why I was looking for someone who had actually tried one. I guess I will need to go myself.

 

If you are referring to the Acoustisonic Junior, I agree, totally useless amp...underpowered and just weak all around. The SWR is an interesting choice, and actually an upright bassist I am currently working with has one, but he admits he rarely uses it anymore.

 

I did also find that five or six years ago, most of those amps were designed to reproduce guitar, not vocals, like the vocal option was totally secondary; the SA220 is, to my mind, is one of the few that really addressed both needs and stepped away from the typical '8 inch speaker with 60w max in something that looked like a guitar combo amp' approach that every amp builder had dumped on the market. The other options were those terribly underpowered wedges from Acoustic, which because they were wedges, did not project well to an audience, or the ridiculously over-priced Bose L1. Now linear speaker arrays are all the rage, and for good reason.

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Again, go read the OP...her father has a full PA....what she needs is just a simple uncomplicated plug and play set up. He doesn't want to have to teach her how to set up speakers, run cables to the board, run cables to speaker. Just plug in a mic and plug in her guitar turn on the power and go.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your set up for you, but it is not what this girl's father is looking for. I agree flexibility and scalability is great, but she has access to all the upper end scale....it is a simple rig they are after.

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on the fly changes and tap-dance access is one of the reasons I have side-lined my Digitech V4. although I am not 100% happy with the simplified TCH basic harmonizer, it is on or off, and I only use two settings.

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Wow! Thank for all the replies guys. I saw the first couple responses and went with it. I did some research and playing a bit a local GC and decided a small mixer with effects would be the best option as not a single vocal effect unit I could find had both compression and reverb that wasnt overpriced or over complicated. So i grabbed a Xenix 4 chn USB for cheap and ordered a Fender Expo. I went with the Expo because it was on sale for $499 and I could ad another for larger venues if needed and it would STILL be cheaper than the Bose. One issue: of the many purchases from GC and MF I have made, all have been perfect except this one. MF never sent the damn array and since they are sold as a single unit, but shipped in separate boxes they cant figure out where it is..... *facepalm* Anyway, I'll post a follow up as soon as I get the array.

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I use the "More Compression" setting on my Play Acoustic. If you are consistently loud, you can just use less gain. But if she is like me, and goes between soft and really loud frequently, compression is a lifesaver. Depends on the mic too. I use a Beta, which really doesn't respond well to backing away very much. I do just a small amount.

 

I feel like my rig is perfect and an always just a little bit bummed when people opt for something else. But I'm definitely not the only person here to have been intrigued by the Fender Expo system, so let us know how it goes!

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Thanks again! To answer daddymack, STM hit it on the head. My daughter is *mostly deaf. 60/40 loss % left to right. It's a long story made short: minor birth defect with the bone structure under under her ears. Us bad parents didn't notice until she was almost 13, then she had a teacher who wore one of those face thingies for religious purposes. We quickly learned she had been reading lips her whole life and thought she was just really LOUD. She wears smart hearing aids, which is actually awesome as they have a wireless transmitter so they can act like wireless in ear monitors when she performs, As for the compression, she too uses a beta 58 and even though she backs away.... compression.

 

 

 

This is a poorly recorded, both audio and video, song. But girl got pipes and gets better every day. I'm just an old guitar nerd, basement rocker, who wants to give his daughter an opportunity to chase what she loves.

 

As for the Expo, I LOVE IT. She hasn't gigged with it yet, but it sounds great, no feedback issues even when cranked in the house (17X18 room with 16' vaulted ceiling). Little Xenix mixer works very well with it. I did find that without the preamp of the mixer its a little weak when plugged in directly. Not sure why that is... I'll experiment with a couple different mics.

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Looks like a good setup.

 

Personally I just brought a Roland BA330 for this type of thing (including battery operation). Like you I have a "real" PA, but am not so keen to lug it to one voice one guitar gigs.

 

The Roland has no compression so wouldn't quite serve the OPs needs. It is versatile, portable enough, and achieves a particular job for me. The only negative so far is that it has a particular tone - a bright top end that I've always associated with Roland, that I don't entirely love. But it's a useful unit.

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