what can you do?

[pogo97]

Got a note today from a friend:

 

new owner of ****** is asking me to fire/cancel acts he doesn’t like, and hire acts the previous owner didn’t want because of the type of clientele they bring in, (drinkers and partiers)

so I doubt i can do the bookings under such terms.

have been working hard to make it a nice listening room, (did you see who I have tomorrow?)

anyways,. new owner is pretty clear, he wants to sell booze, younger “hipper” acts” and doesn’t want love songs or tea drinkers.

I know you didn’t ask for details, but all my work to date has been in vain.

 

My bookings there were few enough anyway, but it was the one place in town that I *might* get to see some honest music. The march of progress.

[Shaster]

Sorry to hear that. You know, in the solo world, all I've been hearing is that rooms want hip young entertainers. Oddly enough, every time I see a hip, young entertainer, they are playing Dock of the Bay, Let's Stay Together, Fire and Rain, The Weight, Grapevine and so on. However, they are probably hip, and they are certainly young.

 

This year, I've lost three rooms because of closure or lack of business, one because of a booking fiasco, and one because of a musical disagreement. Things have slowed down a little bit, which is good, because my fence material arrives tomorrow. It's number one on the honey do list.

[daddymack]

Bottom line, musicians are seen as beer salesmen in the great scheme of bar ownership. Sad, but true...and, sadly most of the 'recovering alcoholics' I know are musicians. I'm sure there is a correlation there...but that [owner's expectation for a younger, hipper crowd of heavier drinkers] is essentially how we lost our Monday night gig [5 minutes from my house!] at the beginning of the year, so, yes, pogo, I feel your pain.

[senorblues]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that targeting older, laid back, diners is more effective for some of us than trying to appeal to the younger, high energy drinkers? I've tried to get my foot in both doors, but so far have only succeeded in getting gigs at restaurants. Can't get into a bar no way, no how.

[Shaster]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that targeting older' date=' laid back, diners is more effective for some of us than trying to appeal to the younger, high energy drinkers? I've tried to get my foot in both doors, but so far have only succeeded in getting gigs at restaurants. Can't get into a bar no way, no how.[/quote']

 

I play in a band that targets geezers. Heck we are geezers ourselves, but we put on a pretty high energy show. We play regularly at two places that have "afternoon dance parties". Both gigs are Saturday, starting 4 pm until 7 or 8. There are also a fairly good number of other places we play at, that cater to the lively but older set.

 

One of my friends came down to see a Saturday show, and was dropped off by his daughter (so he could have a few beers). As she looked into the club she apparently exclaimed "OMG look at all those grey haired people dancing, eeewww:." Never mind grey, a lot of our crowd are white haired, but they can still party with the best of them.

 

So yes, I think, going after the people that still like live music, whether you're a solo, duo, or band, is probably a good thing. My best gigs are the ones where people want a somewhat older musical veteran, that knows the ropes and has a little depth. Those audiences often tip better too (if that's important).

[senorblues]

Of the three variables - age, energy, and food vs drink - you've addressed the first two. I don't mind laying back a bit, although my roots are out front R&R/R&B, but it seems to me that the food vs drink issue is critical. I suspect the folks who burn their SSA checks on a night out with music spend a critical amount on food and so if dining in a restaurant with a table cloth supports my kind of music, even at a somewhat reduced volume, than beer does, then that's what I'll keep doing. Having said that, many of the venues around here aren't exclusively young or old. The table on my right at my last gig had an average age of 75, in front of me 55, and to my left 25.

 

We're finishing up the off-season, and I'll be curious to see how my perceptions change when the tourists arrive. . . . and yeah, the good sized tip (after striking out the first two gigs) was from someone pretty close to my age.

[pogo97]

I recall when I first started playing, I just wanted a place to play and I saw old-guy bands (I don't recall there were old-guy solos) as boring farts who were basically "old and in the way."

 

My perspective has changed a bit. But I'd still like the actually-boring old farts to step aside, but I'd also like the young know-nothings to shut up and sit down. Unless they're actually interesting or nice looking. Which applies to old farts, too: gotta be either interesting music or personally engaging.

[daddymack]

I suppose a lot has to do with geography, and season, to a degree. I know that, for instance, in Palm Springs, there is a winter influx of 'snow-birds', wealthy retirees who don't want to shovel snow, deal with blizzards, and want to play tennis and golf year round. Even tough winter is the 'off season in the desert', these people go out and party, because they can, and they want to see 'PLU' [people like us] acts performing music of their generation. Many of the local venues therefore cater to this clientele from October to March. But come spring, the 'young&hip' crowd descend on the area looking to party and the entire ambiance changes. By June, only the 'lizards' stay, and even the locals only go out at night and the scene changes once again.

 

Boring acts is a whole other issue, as inability to be engaging and entertaining should, in essence, eliminate those who just don't have 'it'. Unfortunately for us [and lucky for them], they apparently cater to the people who wouldn't know good entertainment if it bit them on the @$$...the same people who slavishly watch network tv, only listen to AM radio and/or read tabloids...and are usually somehow related to the venue owner by birth or marriage....and work cheap.

 

To be honest, we had our run, and our target audience is slowly dying of old age. We had our shot when we [and rock and roll] were young, and now it is time for the 'Gen-Xers' to get the money gigs, and the 'millennials' to start taking the high ground. It is the nature of things, and we must be accepting. I am heartened by the fact that a few young musicians see me as a mentor, who come for advice and insight, and respect my skills and experience. Plus, I put on a heck of a show...

[Mikeo]

I suppose a lot has to do with geography' date=' and season, to a degree. I know that, for instance, in Palm Springs, there is a winter influx of 'snow-birds', wealthy retirees who don't want to shovel snow, deal with blizzards, and want to play tennis and golf year round. Even tough winter is the 'off season in the desert', these people go out and party, because they can, and they want to see 'PLU' [people like us'] acts performing music of their generation. Many of the local venues therefore cater to this clientele from October to March. But come spring, the 'young&hip' crowd descend on the area looking to party and the entire ambiance changes. By June, only the 'lizards' stay, and even the locals only go out at night and the scene changes once again.

 

Boring acts is a whole other issue, as inability to be engaging and entertaining should, in essence, eliminate those who just don't have 'it'. Unfortunately for us [and lucky for them], they apparently cater to the people who wouldn't know good entertainment if it bit them on the @$$...the same people who slavishly watch network tv, only listen to AM radio and/or read tabloids...and are usually somehow related to the venue owner by birth or marriage....and work cheap.

 

To be honest, we had our run, and our target audience is slowly dying of old age. We had our shot when we [and rock and roll] were young, and now it is time for the 'Gen-Xers' to get the money gigs, and the 'millennials' to start taking the high ground. It is the nature of things, and we must be accepting. I am heartened by the fact that a few young musicians see me as a mentor, who come for advice and insight, and respect my skills and experience. Plus, I put on a heck of a show...

 

There ya go.

 

It's show biz and is not limited to one age group. It's about working hard to deliver a great fun show to an audience.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

I've been playing the yacht club, country club, and retirement audience since the 1980s. Most of the audience members range from their 50s to 90s - sometimes it's like were playing in "God's waiting room."

 

The music used to be about Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw, Duke Ellington and the like, slowly Elvis P drifted in, and so on, to the present day, it's mostly Baby Boomer music with a few contemporary songs that cross over to that group.

 

Sometimes we are sonic wallpaper, sometimes dance music, sometimes almost concert type entertainment --- never boring. Probably because we aren't bored.

 

Even the sonic wallpaper has a passion like glowing embers. It's the way we like to play.

 

If you are bored with the business, do yourself a favor and find something to do that interests you.

 

Notes

[Bob Dey]

Back in the day (when I was 18) I was told to appeal to the older crowd because they're the ones that spend money. Now days the older crowd goes home early or doesn't go out at all. I guess we should focus on venues that have appriate clientele for what music we want to play.

 

A lot of younger folks like older music. But I remember a 21 year old saying he didn't know any of the songs I was playing! I don't wanna play newer music. I decided at a certain point to be an oldies specialist instead of trying to keep up with current hits. So now my focus is playing old folks homes!

[pogo97]

Old folks homes can be lovely. The folk may not move so fast, but (mostly) their brains are fine. I play stuff that's mostly 'way "too old" for these folks (1750 to about 1945) but they, like me, remember the songs from their parents playing them or some Julie Andrews record or somewhere. And they sit and listen, smile and sway, and thank me ever so much after. I played some Louis Jordan and one of the fellows told of how he saw Louis Jordan when he worked in the shipyards in Georgia during the war. It's nice.

[daddymack]

1750 may be reaching back a bit too far...I'm jus'sayin'...

I cover several Louis Jordan numbers [some, like 'GI Jive', are a bit too era specific, and some like 'The Louisville Lodge Meeting' and 'Saturday Night Fish Fry' have too many lyrics for me to remember]... but songs like 'Caledonia' and 'Is You Is' still resonate.

Because BB King 'resurrected' 'Caledonia', people know it, and any fan of Bugs Bunny at least knows the line 'is you is or is you ain't my baby?'; much like the Fleischer brothers were deep into Cab Calloway in the early 30s, allowing his music to resurface with the babyboomers watching Betty Boop and Koko the Clown cartoons on tv.

[pogo97]

1750 is a guess for The Water is Wide and Barbara Allen. Nothing wrong with those songs.

[daddymack]

except lack of recognizable melody due to lack of radio airplay...

 

James Taylor's cover of WiW:

 

and the earliest recording I could find of Barbara Allen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FATj02li6s

 

neither one would I consider a chart buster, nor a song I will walk away whistling...

[pogo97]

Well!!!!

 

The day I let the radio gatekeepers determine what I play as well as what I hear. Not anytime soon.

 

I counter your examples with:

 

WIW:

 

Barbara Allen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbuUYy1inbo

 

Strikes me that if a song has survived for over 200 years, it's probably got something to recommend it.

[Shaster]

I consider the Water Is Wide, to be a quality tune, but I wouldn't play it unless it was in a concert setting. If a booking agent walked in and saw me playing that song in a lounge, he/she would probably not book me anymore. On many of my hotel contracts, there is actually a stipulation that we not play any slow songs. Naturally if someone requests Rainy Night In Georgia, or Georgia for that matter, I will play them, but other than that, if I do a slower song it's something like Drift Away, or On and On. Restaurants are not as fussy, but even then I don't want people to fall asleep.

 

I know of one performer who has solved the "no slow song" policy by playing every song around 120 bpm or up. So if he did WiW he would just strum his guitar like he was playing Take It Easy, and then sing the song at that tempo and style. I's pretty odd, but it seems to work for him.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

I've never run across anyone who told us not to play slow songs. I guess every manager has his/her thing.

 

I instinctively know not to play too many of them, but that depends on the night and the audience.

 

The good thing about not having set lists and calling songs on the fly is that more often than not you can pace the audience that way.

 

For my baby-boomer crowd, I usually play slow, then gradually faster until they tire, then throw in a song that a few people want to dance to but most people don't (cha-cha, tango, etc.) and then back to the slow. Again - that depends on the night, the audience, and the reason for the gig.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[senorblues]

After four gigs, I have figured out that it would probably be a good thing to ratchet up the energy level and tempos a bit at my "Thursday Night Dinner Club" gig. I never would have considered "One More Heartache", or "Feelin' Alright", or "Take Me to the River", but having said that, there is no question that the songs that get the loudest, most heartfelt applause are mostly ballads: Georgia On My Mind, Come Rain or Come Shine, Don't Let the Sun Catch You Cryin' (yeah, I like Ray Charles), A Song for You, This Masquerade, Hummingbird (.... and Leon Russell) and several others in that vein. My bread and butter is mostly slower tempo grooves - "Home at Last", "Black Cow", "Don't Take Me Alive" (yeah, I like Steely Dan), "40,000 Headmen, "Tightrope. . . . .

 

Maybe I'm being too self-indulgent, but it seems to be working OK so far.

[Voltan]

id just as leave the boring young farts do the same. i really dont understand ageism, sorry... from either perspective. just another label.

[STM86]

Honestly, the owner is probably doing the right thing for his brand. It sucks to lose the gigs, no doubt, but it's smart to be consistent. It's not he had to go young and hip. He could have gone mature and mellow. But if it's a slow-song tea drinker one week and a partier the next, you aren't going to build a consistent clientele for either. I know a couple times I've been to bars I play when other perfectly good acts are playing. Great players, fine voices, but mellow guys on a stool. Again, totally fine. I just can't help but think that our conflicting styles work against each other. I'm not going to turn down gigs over it at places that always treated me really well. Just an observation.

[Vito Corleone]

Sorry to hear that. You know, in the solo world, all I've been hearing is that rooms want hip young entertainers. Oddly enough, every time I see a hip, young entertainer, they are playing Dock of the Bay, Let's Stay Together, Fire and Rain, The Weight, Grapevine and so on. However, they are probably hip, and they are certainly young.

​I don't think "hip" is ever about the material itself, as much as it's about the presentation. And older performers can still be "hip", but it's obviously a much easier/more natural thing to pull off when you're 25 as opposed to 65.

 

The only word I can boil it all down to, unfortunately, is "intangible". The art of this business is always about the intangibles. When you can't put your finger on why one act connects with an audience while another one doesn't, then you know it's more about the art of what they do.

 

Unfortunately, if you don't have that, then you don't have that. All you can do is try to paper over the deficiencies with a "better" songlist or a cooler hat and tie or whatever.

 

It's a tough business. It always has been. But the need for many/most live venues to appeal to youth is certainly nothing new.