It's Live Jim, but not as we know it

[steve mac]

TC Helicon has just announced that has upgraded its latest Voicelive 3 to a new extreme version that can now record the effects vocal, harmonies, guitar effects etc whilst you play along to a BT (which the VL 3 also now stores and plays back) meaning that a solo act would take to the stage, click the BT to start and the device would recognise where in the song the artist would normally be tap dancing on pedals and play the appropriate effect. Leaving the solo to sing and play.

 

Having watched the companies video it seems to work wonderfully, the problem is watching a very talented girl singing and playing along to a BT and hearing effects happening automatically, even knowing that it is being created on the fly, I can't help but feel that one may as well just record the whole thing on a track and have done with it.

 

http://www.tc-helicon.com/en/products/voicelive-3-extreme/

 

 

 

 

[1001gear]

I found the singing overly dramatic and FX too wet but given all the capabilities of that box I can't condemn the premise and will wait for a better demo.

[steve mac]

I agree but of course you can't blame the company for throwing in the kitchen sink of its capabilities

[daddymack]

damnit Jim, I'm a musician, not a tapdancer!

 

So, really this will remember what you did and reproduce all your switching, etc., while all oy uhave to do is play guitar and sing...interesting...let me know when they can just let me drop the box off at the gig and collect my check...

[pogo97]

damnit Jim' date=' I'm a musician, not a tapdancer![/quote']

 

real musicians can tap dance too

 

[video=youtube;yTH9VwACh7o]

[Shaster]

 

Having watched the companies video it seems to work wonderfully, the problem is watching a very talented girl singing and playing along to a BT and hearing effects happening automatically, even knowing that it is being created on the fly, I can't help but feel that one may as well just record the whole thing on a track and have done with it.

 

 

I'm with you there. I would rather watch a video of a whole band playing, then watch one person with a whole mechanized band, that wasn't human. This comes from a guy uses tracks!

 

I recently did a classic rock gig, where one of the singers had a harmony pedal. I know that many singles and duos use them and I understand why, but when you've already got three or four good vocalists in the band, it's best to leave the harmony pedal at home IMHO. I was getting very annoyed thinking, who's stepping on my harmony note, and then realizing it was a machine. You can't look at a machine and give it a dirty look - it just keeps bleating on, blissfully unaware... The human in charge of instigating the harmonies seemed to be saying, "it's not me, it's my machine".

 

BTW, twenty years ago, when I was in a duo, I had my sequencer controlling all my keyboard and drum stuff, my guitar patches, and all our vocal effects. I was even going to add light patches.. The only difference between then and now, was that we had 18 rack spaces, so it looked very Rock & Roll. It was obvious we were using technology, and thus weren't trying to "fool" anybody. I think that maybe I object to the surreptitious nature of the mechanized music, more than the machines themselves. Oh great, now machines have a self!

 

 

[pogo97]

I'm full-tilt minimalist on that stuff. Luckily, I don't have to make a living at music and I can indulge myself by playing electric simply plugged into a tube amp, dobro plugged into the board, piano using a single piano patch and plugged into the board. I like things to be simple so I can focus on playing and singing. It's a niche thing anymore for marketing -- most places expect some sort of robotic reinforcement -- but for my own satisfaction, it's how I want to do it. So I do.

[daddymack]

I was like you pogo, until I discovered my competition were using full blown tracks, including karaoke, to lock the gigs I was after, so adding the harmonizer, then a looper, then the Beatbuddy has been in response to the demand for a solo that comes off like a band. I can't bring myself to playing with tracks, it just goes against my concept of what a 'live' entertainer is [and this is not a knock on those of you who use them]. I've seen it enough times in LA, Maui and Tokyo to know I am not going to have a sax solo wailing away while I stand there strumming chords looking bored.

I am still working out my new 'compact' floor rig, but already I find I am still focused too much on my feet...in time that will change, but it puts a damper on my ability to make eye contact with the audience.

I also agree with Shaster about the harmonizer... if you have a full band with people who can sing harmony...why would you bother?

 

[pogo97]

Maybe you should do a short study of pipe organs. They've been designed to help the player handle complexity for a very long time.

 

It seems to be standard to have "Combination Actions" (think of them as macros) that can be programmed to pull up any arbitrary combination of stops so that you can change sounds quickly while playing. On my church organ, there are some at foot level and some at hand level but they can do more-or-less the same thing. That way, if your foot's free you use a foot and if you've a hand free you use your hand.

 

You've already got the foot thing (but wouldn't it be nice if you could just trigger a macro that pulls up all the settings you need for a song) but you could use midi and some sort of strip of buttons on the top or front (ugh) of your guitar as well. Or maybe there's an Apple Watch app for that. You'll be buying one, right?

[daddymack]

Or maybe there's an Apple Watch app for that. You'll be buying one' date=' right? [img']http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/core/images/smilies/smiley-cool03.gif[/img]

 

[ptkbass]

Here's my take.

OMG Wow. The catch is that the magic foot pedal can't read your mind. So it'll be like learning another instrument. Not just order on Monday, Deliver on Thursday, gig on Friday. It will be like learning to play (in this case "program") another new instrument.

 

Nothing wrong with that. Maybe I'll make that leap sometime in the future. But right now, summer is more important.

[steve mac]

I just miss the lack of spontenaity with this, it feels like a step to far. Bearing in mind I use a TC Helicon Voicelive GTX every show, the difference is if someone walks in the room and I want to hang on a chord or phrase whilst I give them a shout out, I don't want a harmony kicking in automatically, or of I want to encourage a bit of a sing a long during a chorus I have found the best way is just to stop playing and the crowd get the hint and carry on, this of course would be impossible as I would be shackled by the play back.

 

Having said that, I do hate the tap dance and would love to just leave it to automation but at this moment in time, I am just looking at this new iteration of the VL3 and seeing it as maybe an oppurtunity to pick up the non extreem version at a bargain price as "new adopters" sell them on eBay (other auction sites are available).

[1001gear]

Here's my take.

OMG Wow. The catch is that the magic foot pedal can't read your mind. So it'll be like learning another instrument. Not just order on Monday, Deliver on Thursday, gig on Friday. It will be like learning to play (in this case "program") another new instrument.

 

Nothing wrong with that. Maybe I'll make that leap sometime in the future. But right now, summer is more important.

 

Major tool for singer/performer/writer/engineer/producer/posers. I imagine though many will get one as an all in one studio tool.

[daddymack]

I just miss the lack of spontenaity with this

I agree about the spontaneity, but again, if you are playing to tracks, you have already given up that aspect of showmanship.

 

 

[Shaster]

I just miss the lack of spontenaity with this, it feels like a step to far. Bearing in mind I use a TC Helicon Voicelive GTX every show, the difference is if someone walks in the room and I want to hang on a chord or phrase whilst I give them a shout out, I don't want a harmony kicking in automatically, or of I want to encourage a bit of a sing a long during a chorus I have found the best way is just to stop playing and the crowd get the hint and carry on, this of course would be impossible as I would be shackled by the play back.

 

 

This is why I stopped using a midi controlled pre-amp for my guitar, and stopped programming my vocal effects. I was finding that when a guitar solo came up, I would be switched to a distorted sound, when maybe that day I wanted a clean sound. Same with vocal effects. Maybe one day I wanted delay, maybe another I wanted it with no FX. I felt like I was being controlled by my sequencer.

 

Although I do use tracks, they are very minimal - usually only bass and drums, sometimes with some buried keys that only I can hear. While tracks do lock you in, one can always play the song without if it suits.

 

I often work in situations where people are reading charts. Often these charts are read exactly as is, complete with specific intros and endings. Not much different than using tracks. For the most part, I take the ability to solo, over the ability to change an arrangement. I still do like to have the ability to choose different guitar and vocal FX, which is what the audience is focused on anyway.

 

Either way, tracks or loops seem to be prevalent in some parts. Just another tool if used wisely.

 

 

[daddymack]

yes, but in those situations where there are charts, this is typically a larger ensemble than a duo...and usually [in my experience] the charts are for the horn players.

[Shaster]

yes' date=' but in those situations where there are charts, this is typically a larger ensemble than a duo...and usually [in my experience'] the charts are for the horn players.

 

I'm not crazy about charts in duos, but of the half dozen duo or trio situations I regularly play in, about half use charts. Last night I was doing a guitar, piano and vocalist trio. With the exception of a few tunes, everything was charted, and some of them not so easy. In fact the singer really wanted to do Beautiful Goodbye by Amanda Marshall - great rock ballad IMO. Anyway, as a favour, I did a chart for it on the day of the gig. We played it cold that night, with only a minor hitch - I had purposefully omitted four bars near the end, and hadn't mentioned that to the singer. Worked out fine after a bar or two.

 

I work in this jazz trio, where, at the end of a song, the keyboard player places, or flings the finished chart on the floor, and immediately starts in on the next song (the charts are prearranged in order). It was terrifying at first, but now I know to remember the next tune, and at least the key, so I can jump in, one or two bars in.

 

Working with the aforementioned pianist Ron Johnston is like going to jazz school, so I'm happy to gig with him anytime. Here's a clip with some local muso friends, including Ron - I'm not in this video but you can see that everyone is reading.... The singer, Don has hundreds of charts, and he just picks and chooses on the day of the gig. The upside - no rehearsals! [video=youtube;POeKdQVp3No]