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Recommendations for a battery powered rig?


the_big_e

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I'd like to do some busking (never done that before even at the ripe old age of 60 but hey, you only live once). Trouble is I play keys so a piano is pretty much out of the question and although I have seen it done (piano on trolly) I have no way to transport it. However I do have a keytar (Lucina) which is battery powered so I was thinking of using that along with a looper pedal (have to rig a battery pack for it) but PA is the main issue. I know there used to be a thread on here about it but I guess it's long gone now with the new forum. I have been reading about a few different battery powered PA's and it looks like there are several Roland ones. The AC-33 and Roland Cube Street get good reviews but I see there's a new Roland Cube Street EX on the block and there's also the KC-110 kb amp (with other inputs as well).

 

The requirements for the PA are going to be pretty input from the keytar (through a looper pedal).

A Mic

Maybe an input for backing tracks from an ipod or something.

 

I'd also need a battery power pack of some sort to power my looper and vocal effects (I need the effects as I cannot sing to save my life LOL).

 

optional - A battery powered mixer maybe maybe but that depends on the mixer inputs.

 

 

 

I'd like to keep the whole rig down to the size of being able to physically carry it (keytar in shold bag etc) but at worst, nothing bigger than will fit on a small hand cart.

 

Suggestions (other than don't do it LOL)?

 

Thanks

 

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I guess the other question I forgot to add is 'how much power is enough'? 8 watts, 20, 30, 50, 100? I'm thinking about playing in the street or in a park etc. I want enough power that what you hear is really the pa and not just my natural (and effectless) voice etc but not so much that people complain. Enough so that anyone within 30/50 feet perhaps could hear without it being so loud that people complain. It's hard to judge how loud 8watts or 50 watts is without actually trying it.

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Can't really advise other than to say I have the Roland AC60 which is immense so I assume it's little battery powered brother would be equally as good. However I can say go for it... I used to busk as a student to supplement my living expenses, that was in the days before amplification for street performers. So me and my acoustic basically put me through college, or at least kept me in beer. A year or so ago, I was in the UK (Liverpool) and had just bought a new acoustic guitar and was staying in a city center flat. My missus went out with friends for the afternoon, so on the spur of the moment, I headed out on the street for a couple of hours. The upshot was, I had great fun and made the equivant of about $80. If I lived in an appropriate area I would definitely give it a go more regularly. Cheers Steve

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Wattage ratings are pretty meaningless when it comes to volume. Too many other design factors can affect it (speaker sensitivity, cabinet design, etc.). A 50W amp can be louder than a 100W amp. And keep in mind that you don't have to play at max volume. You can always turn down if it's too loud, but you can't turn up if you've maxed out the amp.

 

With keys, I would assume you want some decent low end, which is one reason I think you'd be happy with the StageMate. Have no experience with Roland amps, so can't give you suggestions there.

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http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MPA40BT/

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=598787&Q=&is=REG&A=details

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648512-REG/Roland_BA_330_BA_330_Portable_Stereo_PA.html

 

This is what I use to power several parts of my ceremony system including a small mackie mixer, ev sxa100 speaker and wireless mic. Not as convenient for busking as one battery powered speaker, but a great tool for $100.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-500-Watt-Portable-Power-Station-PPRH5B/203613410

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I'd considered a pure sine wave inverter to power my existing rig (QSC K10, Beringier mixed etc) s I have a spare marine battery in the garage but even smaller 600 watt xantrex prowatt unit runs $170 or so (who knows if that's enough or not!) and as far as I could figure the current draw at max output on the battery I have would give me about an hour of playing and I'd have to lug a ruddy great battery around as well! Just did not seem to make sense when purpose built battery systems seem to get much more time for the weight!.

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I've heard that pure sine wave is best, but those marine batteries are very heavy. And the inverters can be expensive. How much you're willing to spend and how much will you make busking are considerations in deciding. How much volume do you need to busk? A synth or elec. piano kind of requires some low end too. You could get 3-4 hours out of a power center like the link above or there's one by Duracell that's 600 watts.

 

 

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I was only considering an inverter because a) I already had a deep cycle battery (regular car battries don't last) and b) I have a decent PA already in the form of the K10 but the best I can find for power consumption on the K10 is 240 whats at 1/8 power. That's 2 amps at 120 volts. If you pro rate that to say 50% that 8 amps at 120 volts (which I doubt but hey, who knows!) which would mean the battery would be putting out 80 amps at 12v (assuming 100% efficiencywhich does not exist) and at that rate the battery I have would alst around 45 minutes. Now I don't think it'd really be that bad but I'm not going to spend good money just to find out!

I'm also just playing the keytar since it's portable which can run on batteries for 3 or 4 hours so powering the keys is not an issue, just the pa for the instrument and a mic.

Budget wise, I'm looking for cheap, after all I just want to do this to cross it off my bucket list and to have a bit of fun, I'm not looking to make any money from it but I also have to keep expenses down to keep the wife happy!

 

So far that Behringer seems like a good deal although I cannot find anything on it from a user experience point of view other than a few comments on the sweetwater site. On the other hand the Roland Cube Street seems to be pretty popular and well liked and I'm sure that once the EX becomes generally available (it's just come out so not actually in the shops yet) I bet there will be a few used regular Cube Streets for sale so that may be an option.

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I used to use a Roland Mobile Cube for senior center gigs running a Yamaha keyboard and vocal mic through it. Only 5 watts, but it easily filled a cafeteria-sized room at a decent volume. Has some nice effects, too. I now use the Roland amp in my homemade electronic bagpipes and it is loud enough to compete with "real" bagpipes in an outdoor setting.

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I've been using a battery-powered rig for years now, and I've powered a pair of Yorkville NX55P's for FOH, an AER Compact 60/2 as a floor-monitor, a Soundcraft EFX-8 mixer, plus a few LED wash-light fixtures for up to 8 hours, with no issues whatsoever.

 

The battery is a 12v/115ah deep-cycle battery that I picked up at Costco for $89. The inverter is a Xantrex 1500w MSW 12vDC-120AC inverter that I bought at a 1/2 price sale ($79. iirc, at Canadian Tire)

 

I've also got a 300w 12vDC-120AC MSW inverter which I use if I only need my Compact 60, the EFX-8, and a few wash-lights.

 

I've never had a lick of trouble with noise. The battery's kinda heavy, but that problem is easily resolved with a compact/telescopic-handle luggage carrier.

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I've been using a battery-powered rig for years now, and I've powered a pair of Yorkville NX55P's for FOH, an AER Compact 60/2 as a floor-monitor, a Soundcraft EFX-8 mixer, plus a few LED wash-light fixtures for up to 8 hours, with no issues whatsoever.

 

The battery is a 12v/115ah deep-cycle battery that I picked up at Costco for $89. The inverter is a Xantrex 1500w MSW 12vDC-120AC inverter that I bought at a 1/2 price sale ($79. iirc, at Canadian Tire)

 

I've also got a 300w 12vDC-120AC MSW inverter which I use if I only need my Compact 60, the EFX-8, and a few wash-lights.

 

I've never had a lick of trouble with noise. The battery's kinda heavy, but that problem is easily resolved with a compact/telescopic-handle luggage carrier.

 

Read about using a deep-cycle battery like yours...always wondered what it would cost, for powering my PA for outdoor gigs where I'd ordinarily have to use a couple 100' extension cords (one gig required 3!) because the spot chosen for the band.

 

Very much appreciate your info!

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Did a little experimenting over the week end. I got a clamp on ammeter and split a power cable so that I could measure the amps my rig draws. Just for laughs I powered up everything including the rack and my main kb, neither of which I'd use in this setting and even at a decent volume it was only drawing max 2 amps. With just the gear I'd be using it was around .7 amp most of the time with the odd peak to maybe 1.4. So even worst case I figure 2 to 3 amps = something like 220 - 330 watts so I'm thinking a 600 watt inverter should be fine. At 300 watts a 12 v battery would need to put out around 25 amps so the battery I have should be OK for at least a couple of hours playing. More than enough time for me to run out of songs!

Those are loose numbers and don't allow for conversion losses but it should be in the ballpark.

Well, that's the theory anyway. Now time to put it into practice and see what happens!

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Don't know yet about the weight and I may go for a gel one anyway as the one I have is from my old boat and while it's sealed (I think) I think a gel battery would be better.

The whole lot will be on a hand cart anyway so I'm not to bothered about the weight (plus, I'm a big guy!).

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Yeah, it works great Terry.

 

I started using this rig for an annual outdoor gig at a friends' country property. Every Labour Day, he'd have a huge bon-fire, and a bar-b-q for all his clients (renovation/ construction). There's no electricity there, so we always had acoustic-guitars only.

 

One year, I arrived a little late. The music had already started, and my buddy was playing and singing on one side of the huge bon-fire pit (20-30 feet across). As I unloaded my gear, I noticed that the folks who were seated on the opposite side of the fire-pit, were talking among themselves. They weren't listening to the music. I walked over to where they were seated, and realized that the reason they weren't listening, was because they couldn't hear the music over the roar of the fire. Obviously, we needed a PA of some sort, but what to do when you have no electricity?

 

After that gig, I started researching generators. Unfortunately, the really quiet generators like the Honda units, were very expensive. That's when I discovered inverters and deep-cycle batteries.

 

The next year, I brought an AER Compact 60/2, a Soundcraft EFX-8, a few mics/stands, and the event was completely transformed. Finally, everyone there could get into the music, and we had a great time. I used a small 300w MSW inverter and the 115ah 12v battery that I mentioned earlier. I got that inverter for a ridiculously low price,,,, less than $30. (60% off)

 

The following year, things got a little more ambitious. I bought a 1500w inverter, but kept the same battery. Now we had LED wash-lights, a pair of NX55P's on stands, the Compact 60 for floor-monitor duty, the EFX-8, and a bank of mics/stands so we could have more musicians playing and singing. We even had back-up singers. 4 vocal mics in all.

 

The PA ran from roughly 8:00 pm to 4:00 am, and I didn't bother turning it off between sets. When I got home, I put the battery on the charger, and was surprised to see that there was still plenty of "juice" left.

 

The battery may be heavy, but considering the total silence, and the fact that it cost 1/10th of what a small Honda generator would have cost, it was the perfect solution. A heckuva lot better than those small battery-powered amps you see in the music stores.

 

The added benefit there is, you can also use it for other applications such as camping, or at home in the event of a power-failure. It's really a no-brainer.

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still... how heavy is that battery?

 

My 115amp-hour 12v lead-acid deep-cycle battery is roughly the same size as a car battery, and maybe 20-30% heavier???? I'm guessing 60 lbs max. I can easily carry it with one hand, using the built-in handle. If I used it often, and had to carry it over longer distances, I'd simply use a telescopic-handle luggage carrier.

 

It's certainly a heckuva lot lighter than carrying a generator and fuel-tank.

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The reason I am thinking to go battery/inverter is because already have the QSC K10 which has plenty of umph for both vocals and a keyboard and pretty mcuh everything else in between and the cost of an inverter is still going to be less than a dedicated battery powered unit. Not saying they are not useful but I'm trying to make the best use of what I already have so this seems, for me at least, to be the best option. YMMV.

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The reason I am thinking to go battery/inverter is because already have the QSC K10 which has plenty of umph for both vocals and a keyboard and pretty mcuh everything else in between and the cost of an inverter is still going to be less than a dedicated battery powered unit. Not saying they are not useful but I'm trying to make the best use of what I already have so this seems' date=' for me at least, to be the best option. YMMV.[/quote']

 

Yep, it's a MUCH better option. The "dedicated built-in battery-powered units" use exactly the same prinicipal, only smaller /cheaper /less-powerful /shorter duration,etc. With the external battery/inverter set-up, you simply choose the battery that meets or exceeds your needs. In my book, the more amp-hours the better. You can also stack batteries, to get even longer run-time.

 

If weight is a big issue, just go with a smaller battery, such as a 30-35 amp-hour wheel-chair battery, etc. You'll get less run-time, but for some applications, that may not be an issue. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of over-capacity. Running short of "juice" in the middle of a gig, would be disastrous IMO.

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Here's a point worth mention;

 

Take a look at the terminals on this battery,,,, there are four terminals. Two of them resemble the terminals you see on a car-battery. There's also a pair of much smaller diameter threaded-shaft terminals.

 

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/everstart-marine-battery-27dc-850n/6000016951063

 

Small inverters, generally come with a pair of cables. The terminals on those cables can vary widely. Some will have alligator-clip terminals, and some will have spade-lugs, or a lug with a hole in it. Those terminals are way too small for connecting to the larger battery terminals. When the battery has the smaller threaded-shaft terminals, it's much easier to hook-up the inverter. I prefer to use a battery-cable that has the "through-hole" lugs, which simply slip over the threaded-shaft battery terminals. I then secure the cables to the battery using wing-nuts.

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