Members Notes_Norton Posted March 29, 2014 Members Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have one monster cable. I needed a 30 foot mono shielded cable for a stage monitor quite a few years ago, and the only brand I could find was an expensive "Monster" cable. It did the job for many years and last week it failed by the phone plug - as they all eventually do. I know I can send it back, but I keep a supply of 1/4" phone plugs with screw on connectors handy for just this kind of situation. I found out why this Monster was so expensive. 1) Shrink wrap around the connectors at the plug end 2) The shield was densely braided copper wire - I would guess if it isn't 100% shield it's the closest thing to it - This made it very time consuming to un-braid before twisting together to fit under the phone plug lug 3) Center conductor was twisted with a second, insulated solid conductor wire inside making it very strong (so that's why this cable is so hard to coil up). They did put a lot of money into the manufacture of the cable. On the other hand, I still think it's an overkill for what we are using the cable for - way past the point of diminishing returns. It failed like any other cable, and in the same place. I suppose if you were having interference problems, the better shield might be worth the money, but I'd also imagine if the interference was that strong you'd have problems with your pickups and other cables too. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted March 29, 2014 Members Share Posted March 29, 2014 I've needed a couple of special-purpose cables recently and ordered them from Sly Goose Cables in Toronto. They were reasonably priced, arrived quickly and seem very good quality. I'm tempted to support local and just order all my new cables from him as the need arises. A question: I realise that some cables are aimed at stage use and some at studio use. Based on your experience, is that something to pay close attention to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 29, 2014 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2014 Notes, when dealing with braided shielding with a screw-on jack,, I usually just form a 'pass-thru' hole in the braid for the screw. Faster than trying to twist it and then hook it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted March 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks Daddymack! Do you have any photos? Unbrading this cable took about 10 minutes. When I worked in high frequency radio frequency electronics, we had special connectors that slid between the shield and the outer plastic jacket. Pogo97 in my home studio there is no difference between studio and gig quality cables. They way I figure it, is if I can't hear the difference, my customers can't either. On the other hand, I'm not doing demos to send to Nashville or LA either. I don't know if they can hear anything I cannot. My studio is not a pristine listening environment and I do not have mega-thousand per item components. I'm basically a live player, it's what I enjoy most. Get up in front of an audience, sing, play various instruments, see the smiles on the faces, watch the dancers enjoying themselves, and hear the applause at the end of the number (or an unusually good service). For all my intents and purposes, there is no sonic difference between medium quality cable and the Monster. YMMV. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks Notes. I'm with you on the "if I can't hear it..." continuum. It seems that, in every product category, there's a sweet spot that's not silly expensive and is still satisfactory by the user's standard. Where this falls will vary depending on you, your uses and your bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 30, 2014 Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks Daddymack! Do you have any photos? Unbrading this cable took about 10 minutes. When I worked in high frequency radio frequency electronics, we had special connectors that slid between the shield and the outer plastic jacket. Notes sorry, no pix...something I learned in my youth building computer systems....what I do is use an xacto or other pointed metal object to spread the braid apart near the base of the cut-away outer insulation, then pull the center conductor out so I have the braid as a hollow tube. Flatten it, and then using the same tool, closer to the open end, spread the braid again on two sides until I can get the screw through where I want it. Then I hit the braid with solder around the pass through hole and voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 I get ragged on for buying Monster but it's the only way IMO. I buy them once, when they get old I walk into guitar center and return them for a free new one. I probably go through a few a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted March 31, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thanks daddymack - that's explanatory enough not to need pictures Potts, whatever works for you is right for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted April 1, 2014 Members Share Posted April 1, 2014 I get ragged on for buying Monster but it's the only way IMO. I buy them once, when they get old I walk into guitar center and return them for a free new one. I probably go through a few a year. Doesn't GC do that with their LiveWire brand, too? I have one LiveWire cable - a guitar cable. I played a heck of a lot of gigs with it with no problems at all. The only reason I don't use it now is because it's an 18ft cable and I got tired of tripping over it. I switched to a 12ft. It still gets used regularly at band gigs. Lately I've been buying my cables exclusively from Audiopile. VERY nice quality cables, very reasonably priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Doesn't GC do that with their LiveWire brand, too? . Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 The best thing about GC are the LiveWire cables and the warranty. Same warranty as Monster cables for a fraction of the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Do you have to save your original purchase receipt, or can you just walk in with a busted LiveWire cable and get a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I just walk in with a cable. No receipt needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted April 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2014 Too bad we don't have one close by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joshmac Posted April 4, 2014 Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 Yep I use the old warranty trick too. They have it here on planet waves guitar cables, so I buy the heftiest one and replace it every 6 months or so (for free). I also buy "digiflex" xlr cables, which have the same type of warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted April 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 Back in the "old days" we used to buy bulk cable, cut it to exact size and solder the ends on ourselves. Those days are gone with mixed results. (no, I'm not longing for the 'good old days'). We don't get the exact length we want, but we save a lot of time - the first time. But sooner or later the ends will fail, and since there isn't a trade-in place near me that means fixing them myself - the same work as I used to do the first time. But it seems that especially XLR connectors were easier to solder back in the stone ages. They actually had little lands with holes in them to wrap the wire through, thus making an easier mechanical connection before applying solder. And I don't think it's my eyesight but the little solder lands are more difficult to see clearly. They must be making them fuzzier. So I don't solder XLR plugs anymore. But the XLR's don't seem to fail as much as the 1/4" phone plugs. Probably because they flex less on the gig. So for phone plugs I use Switchcraft model 70. -- Jumbo size, screw on connectors, and that makes an on the job repair quick and the only tools I need are a pair of diagonal pliers and a screwdriver. Soldering on the gig is a PITA. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 4, 2014 Members Share Posted April 4, 2014 Soldering my own cables made sense back when I was on the road and had nothing else to do during the afternoons anyway. Nowadays? Life is way too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted April 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2014 I got to agree with that Guido. Because of where I live, and using the Switchcraft 70s with screw on terminals, it takes much less time to repair a cable than to drive to the music store. When I was on the road, I used to take apart my saxophones once or twice a year and polish the hundreds of parts that make it up, then carefully put it back together. Took about 7 hours. I haven't done that in decades. But when I was on the road, the biggest non-gigging activity for me was trying to get lucky with some pretty girl!!! But that's another thread. Not to hijack this one. I hear Planet Waves has a easy connect system that gets good reviews. Anybody know of it? Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted April 6, 2014 Members Share Posted April 6, 2014 I just walk in with a cable. No receipt needed. I looked, and the LiveWire cables are about double what I pay for the EWI cables from Audiopile. That being the case, I don't see the value in the LiveWire cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 6, 2014 Members Share Posted April 6, 2014 Any return policy is going to be about convenience to a certain degree. I don't believe there is anyone near me who carries EWI cables. But there's a GC I drive past a couple of times a week anyway. Similarly, someone said earlier they had no GC close to them. So for them, the LiveWires wouldn't make much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted April 6, 2014 Members Share Posted April 6, 2014 I see the "spin" of Monster cable has not abated It really is crap. And anything over 20 feet (in an unbalanced cable) is going to be highly suspect to induced hum and r/f interference. You get no discernible increase in audio quality using monster cable over say, Mogami or any other quality brand cabling. It really is one of those urban myths! But if you are happy .....I do strongly suggest though that if you need runs over 20 feet, change up to balanced cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 6, 2014 Members Share Posted April 6, 2014 There's always a market for ridiculously-overpriced-pay-for-the-name stuff in every line of goods and products. Not that such things probably matter much to anyone these days, but at least with Monster you're buying stuff made in the US. Not sure where LiveWire builds their cables, but at least they are an American company. EWI is based in Korea. But yeah. Their cables are very inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted April 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 7, 2014 Personally, I think they are over-engineered for the application and past that point of diminishing returns cost wise. At least they aren't selling cheap junk at the higher price. And I can see some people paying for the convenience of never having to replace a plug (I'm not one of them) or somebody just wanting to spend more. After all, how much better is that Lexus than the Camry with the same body and engine? Is that Gucci handbag really worth many times more than the Gucci knock-off or a more generic handbag? Some people think so. Does the fancy wood veneer on top of the same guitar make it any better? When I bought my Parker DF, I got natural wood. Book matched maple veneer would have upped the price of the guitar many hundreds of dollars. Personally, I don't think that's worth it, but a lot of other people do, and we are both correct. I did pay $200 extra for better pickups though. I got the Monster because I needed it in a hurry and it was all that was available at the time. It does the job but I'm sure a lesser cable could have done the job with no audible difference. It's the first 'high end' cable I've ever bought, and unless I run into a similar situation, it will also be the last. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 8, 2014 Members Share Posted April 8, 2014 Well, I think part of the reason people want to pay extra for Lexus' and Gucci is that the name brand impresses certain folks they wish to impress and 'says something' about who they are and the image they want to present. Outside of the high-end audiophile world, I'm not sure who is impressed by Monster cables. I don't know any other musicians who might be. So it's a bit of a weird phenomenon to me that musicians would buy them. It's not like buying a boutique amp or a vintage guitar. Nobody is checking out each other's cables, I don't believe. Also a bit strange that since the lifetime warranty is one of the few things that make the cable worth more than others (although still not as much as they charge for it), that anyone would decide to cut one up and fix it themselves. I just recently bought a new car and I paid a bit extra to extend the bumper-to-bumper warranty and dealer-performed regular service. Arguable whether doing so is something that is actually worth the extra money, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be changing my own oil in the meantime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 8, 2014 Members Share Posted April 8, 2014 The plug ends are the weakest link. Using a guitar cable as a speaker cable will fry and make them microphonic too.Once the wire gets hot, melts the insulation, and lest oxygen in, the cable dies a slow death from oxidation. The copper getsoxidized, tarnished and the cable gets crackly and noisy when its moved. You can buy military style plugs are the best jacks made, but they are very hard to find.They are one solid piece of brass with laminated nylon as insulation. Its like the whole connectoris epoxied together. It has no pressure couplings or thin nylon insulators that can melt soldering or loosen up.Your cheaper jacks are just riveted together. One tug and the whole thing falls apart and just heating it melts the insulators andloosens the ground sleeve pressure coupling. I found two of them over 40 years as an electronic tech. They used to be common place. The 1/4" jacks were used by thetelephone company switchboard operators who plugged and unplugged patch cables all day long and the plugs would last for years of abuse.The so called plugs used today are a joke in comparison. The only problem with the brass is they do get tarnished with non use so you need to buff them up. The ones I haveare over 50 years old and have outlasted many cables. Building your own cables is no longer cost effective. I do build my own when I come across good deals on cables.you can buy a 50' mic cable cheap, cut it down to half size and get one mic and one guitar cord out of it. You can use the secondconductor wire in the center as a ground or a hot wire depending on how good its shielding is. Shielding of 90% or better is what you want. Your budget cables are often 70% or less. The bare minimum for blocking noise.Better cable can last a lifetime. I have some Beldin cables which I've had for 47 years. I use these switchcraft Mono 90 jacks for most of my cables now. http://www.parts-express.com/switchcraft-226-1-4-mono-90-degree-plug-nickel--093-128They are a single cast of metal between the ground sleeve and base so they cant get loose like others.So far after 5 years I haven't had any give me issues. I also use hot glue after soldering the connections and heat shrink the interior.Plastic hot glue is non conductive and can add allot of sturdiness to the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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