Members DavidFisher Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Why aren't Csound, Max/MSP/Jitter, and similar the end-all-be-all to synthesis? They are infinitely expandable, pretty efficient on the CPU's (with a Quad Mac you should be fine for almost anything). If you don't like the sound of a filter or something, the you can just bust out your C++ skills, and make a new one! People seem to love the Nord Modular synths, but not as many people seem to be using Max/MSP. If anything, i'd see the Nords are a more limited version of Max/MSP (and they aren't exactly the highest fidelity synths anyway... well at least the pre G2 ones). No, there aren't build in knobs/buttons obvious as it's all software, but that doesn't stop people from using Reason or Ableton for work. A cheap midi knobbank can help fix that anyway. So why aren't these "The" synthesis units? Some also might say they are hard to understand, but if you understand synthesis (just as I'd assume you would for any synth, analogue or digital) then it's not a big deal at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CardioGram Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 1. most people don't have c++ skills to "bust out". perhaps they spent their formative years learning to play music instead of coding... 2. do _you_ really have the c++/dsp skills to program a great sounding filter from scratch?? 3. i do not agree that a good understanding of synthesis would make learning eg. Max trivial, the interface has its own set of rules/challenges on top of synth techniques 4. to give an extreme example, why buy a les paul guitar if you could buy a kit including nice pieces of wood, different fittings, strings, and tools? (I mean 'you could make any guitar you want, man!') 5. often, being constrained to make a synth within a certain limited architecture is artistically a positive thing 6. many musicians want to spend only a certain amount of effort on sound-design, using somewhat pre-designed components that already sound great together and have big 'sweet spots', then get on to the other steps of music making. 7 - 100. there are many other reasons, anyone else want a turn? (personally i like analogue sound and custom-designed physical interfaces with knobs/displays/blinky lights etc., eg you couldn't build a machinedrum in Max cause there's no existing midi controller that would give that level of interaction) Personally I _do_ use Pd and _do _ have c++ skills, so my opinion is reasonably informed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jez Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Too much choice and power can be counter-productive. You might spend so long {censored}ing around that you forget to actually make any music There's more to being the ultimate synth than simply raw spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 In the right hands, any tool is the "end-all-be-all". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by DavidFisher but if you understand synthesis (just as I'd assume you would for any synth, analogue or digital) then it's not a big deal at all. It's still a big deal because you have to wrap your head around a mental model. Using a synth does not require you to understand synthesis like using a computer does not require you to understand programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pizzamon Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 If you are a "good" max/msp programmer you have a valuable and interesting skill you should put to producing with. That thing has a large learning curve that not everyone can overcome (myself included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members setAI Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 that is sort of like asking why we don't all just make any kind of sound/music we want by simply opening up a blank wave file in your DAW and drawing in by hand each of the 44 thousand sample amplitude points for each second of sound until you have made your perfect song- it's about FLOW- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 dumbest, question, ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by DavidFisher So why aren't these "The" synthesis units? Some also might say they are hard to understand, but if you understand synthesis (just as I'd assume you would for any synth, analogue or digital) then it's not a big deal at all. LOL - if you understand synthesis, you'll be able to program in c++? MSP is a bit easier than that, but isn't it obvious that after a certain point you are doing programming and not tweaking an instrument? Not that this is bad, but, well, it just isn't the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 By and large, this is a board of musicians, not mathematicians or electrical engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by DavidFisher Why aren't Csound, Max/MSP/Jitter, and similar the end-all-be-all to synthesis? They are infinitely expandable, pretty efficient on the CPU's (with a Quad Mac you should be fine for almost anything). If you don't like the sound of a filter or something, the you can just bust out your C++ skills, and make a new one! cause, honestly, I have better things to do than debug my synthesizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonnenhuegel Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 I love to switch on one of my synths and ... some really nice sounds come out of it - because they are allready in there.I also love to create own sounds in soft - synths ... Absynth or Reaktor.But I'd not like to programm everything from the beginning. I do not know how to do it and I do not want to learn it. Give me a Moog and I'll find enough sounds where nothing is missing for my ears. All these records od Chick Korea and all the others - none of them programmed in Max. But ... if YOU can programm in Max - create some nice synths and share with us what comes out of it!! I'd love to listen to your sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members percyexpat Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 I think people use MAX to do things that can't be done anywhere else, because it can do pretty much anything, but theres no point in using it to do something that can be done far easier using something else. Its just a pointless waste of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by CardioGram 4. to give an extreme example, why buy a les paul guitar if you could buy a kit including nice pieces of wood, different fittings, strings, and tools? (I mean 'you could make any guitar you want, man!') Damn straight! Pieces of wood and guitar parts are the ultimate electric guitars! Any real guitarist should be able to put together his/her own damn guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Silent Heart Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 In the balance between usability and power, Reaktor and Kyma are probably closest to the ideal, and that's why you often hear those referred to as "the ultimate synths." A modern version of Max is actually not much harder to use than Reaktor though. The last time I used CSound, it was still way behind on the usability factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 I took two semesters of each in undergrad. I remember nothing. -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by SirGarrote I took two semesters of each in undergrad. I remember nothing. -G Well, that's not exactly true. I remember that the SCORE file in Csound was... TEH SUX0RZ!!!!!!!!! -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dxdreamer Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 i dont really know anyone actaully useing Csound regularly for actual composition and commerical productions but have seem some use MAX for live performances, a comming up show at UBC will feturing MAX interacting with various insturments with video and audio but anyway they are all too much for me to handle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Errr, because you can't play them in real time? Because you have to type a bunch of stuff and compile it before you can play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 You might as well ask why 3ds Max isn't the ultimate home camcorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by scarecrowbob You might as well ask why 3ds Max isn't the ultimate home camcorder. :D -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by scarecrowbob You might as well ask why 3ds Max isn't the ultimate home camcorder. wtf noob!? You mean you didnt capture that hookers bukkake with 3ds max? noopid stoobies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by myteeGTi wtf noob!? You mean you didnt capture that hookers bukkake with 3ds max? noopid stoobies... Sorry, it's still rendering... but with brazil, it is really, really good looking. Or it will in June, 2010 when it finishes rendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hyperstationjr Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well I JUST started with Max/MSP... but eventually I plan on putting together full on Modular parts (based on a Nord G2 system), that can easily be patched up in Max just as you would any other Modular... (it's already been done, but it costs a LOT) Some people might ask why, when I already have 2 Nord Modulars... but I think it's just fun to try, also, Max will probably end up doing all kinds of weirdo stuff that I won't anticipate... I've mentioned in on the EM forum, some people seemed enthused and willing to help... It will definitely take some time, but I WILL get it done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by hyperstationjr It will definitely take some time, but I WILL get it done... That is really the only way anything gets done in really complex systems. I have to admit that I'm pretty ignorant about max, but (just to egg ya on) I gotta give propers for that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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