Nord Electro II Rack ~OR~ Hammond XM-2 ? Please help me choose

[derekthedalek]

Hi All ! This is my first contact with you lot so please bear with me. I play keyboards in a Wedding Band but previously I played in a resident club band where I blasted a Hammond A100 through a Leslie 145, miked-up through a massive pa system. YUM YUM ! After our band got the sack, I had to sell the Beast. I now need to find a module to give me a good BIG Hammond sound. I am playing a Korg Trinity and a Roland XP-30 which has the expansion card "Keyboards of the 60's & 70's " fitted. IMO its not too good. I have thought about the Voce V5+ but getting one in the UK is a real problem and it doesnt have a built in Leslie. I have tried using a pc with Native Instruments B4 "live" with a band, but drummers hate people that take longer to set up than them so that idea was dropped, although, it did sound the Dugz Danglies! I tried the Clavia Nord Electro II 61 note when it first came out but I wasnt impressed and thought it was overpriced. I now wish I had bought it, as I wouldnt be in this quandry now. I have also tried out the Creamware B4000, it had the worst dose of latency I have ever come accross. Next ,I looked at Rolands offering the VK-8m, I dont like the way its set-up, that D Beam thing ?.. I dont fancy looking like a magician waving his hand to switch the Leslie to fast! SO..I'm now revisiting the Nord Electro II rack, but have just heard that the Hammond XM series is back and would love to hear if it can stand up against the Mighty Nord of the North..........

[davidplasti-k]

I own a nord electro 2 (61 key) and let me tell you that it has a lot of great things: first it is very portable and not heavy, second it has one of the best hammond sounds out there (some people say the b3 sound is better than the portable hammonds or roland organs) third, clavia updates the piano sounds. Fourth the clavinet d6 and the wurly are amazing sounding. fourth it is very well constructed and you dont have to go to many programs or banks to change a sound. It is all there. This keyboard is deffenitely for performance and studio if you want to listen a recording I made with the lead 2x and electro 2 go to plasti-kdc www.myspace.com. The rack is agood option but one thing I also love about the electro is that the keys are very well made and easy for hammond playing. good luck!!!!!

[derekthedalek]

Many thanks for your advice. You've got me swinging towards the Nord, I just wish I could hear a demo of the all singing, drawbar pulling Hammond XM2 and its controller.

 

Cheers !

[pink floyd cramer]

I have the Electro II rack and I can promise you no hardware all-in-one solution (meaning: no Leslie speaker) will beat it. It sounds great through a Leslie too, but for that I slightly prefer Voce. Still, if it didn't pump yer nads first time around prolly won't now.

[derekthedalek]

Cheers Mr Pink for your comments, The reason the Nord didnt impress me the first time I met it was because (A) I didnt like the action of the keys and (B) I didnt like the fact you couldnt split the keyboard to have piano and Hammond at the same time. I DID however think the Hammond sounded fantastic and thats the thing I need now. With regards to the Hammond XM2 module, I have just been in touch with Hammond UK and found out that although the sound engine in the XM2 module is the same as the XK1 ~ XK3 & B3 keyboards, the higher up the range you go, the more the manufacturers tweak the engine. Sounds a bit like the VTec engine in my Honda SE, same engine as the Type R but the more you pay the more power you get. I just wish Hammond made that more clear when advertising their products. It should be Vase III Type T (Tesco) or Vase III Type H (Harrods) ! BTW...I still have my 145 Leslie and preamp stomp box. I dont really fancy gigging it as I'm scared it gets damaged. Thats why I need a module with a built in Leslie. No doubt I'll post some more results in my Quest for a Clone !

[XK-S -> 3300]

With regards to the Hammond XM2 module, I have just been in touch with Hammond UK and found out that although the sound engine in the XM2 module is the same as the XK1 ~ XK3 & B3 keyboards, the higher up the range you go, the more the manufacturers tweak the engine. It should be Vase III Type T (Tesco) or Vase III Type H (Harrods) ! BTW...I still have my 145 Leslie and preamp stomp box. I dont really fancy gigging it as I'm scared it gets damaged. Thats why I need a module with a built in Leslie. No doubt I'll post some more results in my Quest for a Clone !

 

 

Sir, I think you misunderstood what you were told. The "Tonewheels" in the XK-3/c are tweakable. The "Tonewheels" in the XK-1 and XM-2 are not although it does have 4 B Type, 3 mellow and 3 "transistor" sets to choose from. The effects like C/V and the digital Leslie have been improved as the technical ability for improvement has grown. The digital Leslie in the XK-1 is an improvement over the one in the XK-3. The XM-2 is equal to if not an improvement on the XK-1. They are both about the same age in their technology and several years newer than the XK-3. The XK-3c's digital Leslie is an improvement over the XK-1/XM-2 both in sound and features. In addition the XK-3c has C/V that is selectable for either manual or both.

 

While the XK-1 has fewer hardware features such as only one full set of drawbars it has all the sound quality features of the XK-3 with some improvements. The XM-2 has pretty much all of the sound and hardware capabilities of the XK-1 except for the actual keyboard.

 

The XK-3c has more "Tonewheel" sets to choose from than the XK-3 and they are all adjustable. Does the XK-3c sound better than the XK-3? Yes in many small ways that add up to a big difference (IMHO). Will there be new versions of the XK-1 and XM-2 with the improvements of the XK-3c? Probably at some point in the future.

[Dejavoodoo]

I like the Electro organ sounds - quite accurate. I once did a drawbar-for-drawbar shootout with a real B3 and Leslie, and the Electro held up fine. I didn't go with it, however, as I play slightly more EP and piano, and the Electro's keybed didn't feel comfortable to me for those sounds.

 

Which brings me to my point: the rack may or may not be a good option for you, depending on the controller you use with it. Be sure to take that into consideration.

[derekthedalek]

Dear XK,

You are absolutely correct in saying that I mis-understood what Hammond UK told me. I am slightly confused by the order in which Hammond released each model, perhaps you could clarify the history for the benefit of us older organ grinders.

 

Dear Dejavoodoo,

Many thanks for your reply also. I will be using either my Roland XP-30 or Korg Trinity to control whichever one of the two aforementioned clones I go for. My my ..this forum malarky is such fun!

[Dejavoodoo]

 

Dear Dejavoodoo, Many thanks for your reply also. I will be using either my Roland XP-30 or Korg Trinity to control whichever one of the two aforementioned clones I go for. My my ..this forum malarky is such fun!

 

 

You are welcome!

 

Two things:

1. My CX3 has unlimited polyphony, meaning you can do glissandos and smear all day long without annoying midi hang. On a synth you're limited to the keyboard's polyphony.

2. The synth action keyboards may not feel right to someone who's previously played the real deal organ.

[PeterParker]

 

My CX3 has unlimited polyphony, meaning you can do glissandos and smear all day long without annoying midi hang. On a synth you're limited to the keyboard's polyphony.

 

 

I think this doens't hold. The polyphony depends on the sound/synth engine which is adressed, not on the used controller keyboard.

If the topic starter uses the Roland or Korg synth to control a Hammond B3 module, then the polyphony will be the one of the module. For most Hammond modules (which use a specific modelling and no samples), the polyphony is unlimited.

[XK-S -> 3300]

 

Dear XK, You are absolutely correct in saying that I mis-understood what Hammond UK told me. I am slightly confused by the order in which Hammond released each model, perhaps you could clarify the history for the benefit of us older organ grinders.

 

 

 

The XK-3 was introduced in early 2004. I think the serial numbers start 0404 (Yr/Mo).

 

I believe the XK-1 was introduced early in 2006 and the XM-2 was introduced toward the end of 2006. If you look at pictures or the owners manuals of the 2 instruments you will see that the connectors for the XM-2 are in the opposite order and upside down compared to the XK-1. It is as if the same board is used in both but is upside down in one compared to the other. I don't know if the same board is used in both but the board in my XM-2 has 2 numbers printed on it and one is blacked out with a marker.

 

The XK-3c was introduced at the end of 2007 and the serial numbers start 0711.

 

I believe that Hammond used the best computing power and software it could with each model/version. The XK-1 was intended to be kind of an entry level version of the XK-3 with all of the "sound" but without the hardware that would make it cost as much as an XK-3. The XM-2 also has all the sound of the XK-3. If one owned an XK-3/System and wanted split C/V, 2 sets of drawbars for the upper manual and still have drawbars for the lower manual, adding an XM-2 to the setup would be a relatively inexpensive way to do it. And it would allow for screaming overdrive on one manual while having clean tones for chords etc. on the other. Adding an XK-1 as a lower manual for the XK-3 instead of the System lower manual would offer the same benefits. It might take a little carpentry to build a frame for the XK-1 to sit in and the XK-3 to sit on so everything lines up, but it could be done.

[davidplasti-k]

Dear Dejavoodoo,

Many thanks for your reply also. I will be using either my Roland XP-30 or Korg Trinity to control whichever one of the two aforementioned clones I go for. My my ..this forum malarky is such fun!

 

 

Derek:

 

If those are your controlers you should definitely get the electro 2 keyboard and not the rack. Keys are very important for good playing and the trinity or roland xp 30 have more delicate keys.

[b3keys]

If you are going to be doing a lot of palm swipes, you may want to get the Keyboard version of the Electro or the XK.

 

I just picked up the XM-2 module and XM-2C Drawbar Controller. I really like them. There are a lot of editable parameters. You can configure the percussion, tonewheel type, leslie (5 different types) and specific leslie parameters (rotor speed, mic distance, etc) to taste.

 

With the Electro, you get one very, very good Leslie and have the advantages of the EPs. If you prefer drawbars, like I do, then the Electro may not be for you.

 

Both are very good. You can't go wrong with either. Pick the one you like the best and keep rockin!

[derekthedalek]

Many thanks to all above, After carefull consideration of all your comments so far, I am down to the Nord rack OR XM-2 with controller. I think if cost and limited stage space was not a factor, the Hammond XK-3c would be the 1st choice. Stacking them three high doesnt work for me as I get a really sore back after about an hour of playing. Plus the ladies miss out on seeing my gorgeous face! SO, its back to the modules. I have ordered the Nord Rack (delivery end of May) and the Organ Studio in Edinburgh have an XK-1 (should sound the same as XM-2 ?) coming in next week.

 

Its going to be "Suck It And See" !

[Ed Wall]

I think if you use your Roland XP 30 to trigger a Nord Electro rack you will find that to be an inexpensive, light and great sounding solution, provided you dont mind the digital drawbars.

 

You can probably find a used Electro rack on ebay or Craigslist between 8-900 dollars.

 

edwall.biz

[pink floyd cramer]

I actually hate even using a tabletop module, wish I would have given the Electro keys more of a chance as they are not that different from my cheapie M-Audio controller except for the waterfall keys. And even one MIDI cable is too many, IMO. I would advise getting a "shelf" extension for your keyboard stand (like the one one you can get for a Roland VK8m) so at least you will have a convenient place to park the Electro rack.

[derekthedalek]

Since my last post, the company I ordered the Nord Electro 2 Rack from, sadly went into administration and my order was cancelled. I then started to watch demo's on YouTube of the Hammond XK series and the Nord Electro to try and get a better idea of the sound. More and more I started to get the feeling that the Hammond had it nailed over the Nord and the thought of pulling drawbars again swayed me towards the Hammond XM-2 and XMc-2 controller. I took the plunge and started shopping around and eventually got a great deal from "Haven Keyboards" in Ipswich who were extremely helpful. Both Dave and Tony explained the ups and downs of both the Hammond and the Nord. I placed the order and it arrived bang on time. I plugged it into my Leslie 145 through a Leslie stomp box pre amp. I was TOTALLY AMAZED...I could go on all day singing its praises. I started to get my leads and mics ready so I could mike it up at my next gig but out of curiosity, I thought I would try it through my Peavey 4c power amp and two HiSys 2 speakers first. O M G ! the Leslie simulation in this thing is seriously accurate. I decided to leave the Leslie at home!. Last Friday, I played a gig to 200 people and I can only say that the Hammond XM-2 is the DUGZ DANGLIES! I fixed the drawbar controller to the left side of my Roland XP-30 with a silicon mat and a few bits of blue tack. It was fantastic being able to push and pull those 9 magic bars again. Another great thing was not having to think about wearing out the drive belts on the Leslie motors or worrying about replacing valves. If I had to criticise the XM-2 at all, it would be on the Scanner Vibrato C3 setting. Having played the real thing, the XM-2 is not quite as gurgly as my A100 but Im not finished tweaking yet and the editing capabilities of the XM-2 are excellent. I hope this will help anyone else who is in a quandary about choosing a clone, but if cost is NOT an issue and you are only after an accurate Hammond clone then I can strongly recommend the one with the proper name!