Jump to content

XLR Cable question


the_big_e

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Yeah, I know it's not a 'key's question but it is sorta related.

I got (or will be when it arrives) a DI box. Up to now I have not had to bother with XLR cables. When I look at prices they are all over the place. So the question is, is there really any difference between say a Monster cable (expensive) and some cheaper brand?

Isn't wire just wire?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, there can be differences in the quality of the cable. But unless you're talking about cables carrying high wattages (like speaker cables, where high capacitance can really mess with you), the differences are not really going to be audible. The differences are going to be in durability. In a nutshell, if you're plugging and unplugging a cable over time, a cheap cable is very likely going to crap out a lot sooner than a quality cable. Would you rather buy 4 cheap cables over the course of a year (which will probably cost you more than 1 quality cable), and deal with more cable failures on stage, or just buy 1 quality cable that lasts a year? For a gigging musician like me, who tears down and sets up his gear numerous times a week, the price of quality is worth it. I haven't bought a new cord in 10 years.

 

On the other hand, if this is for a stationary setup, like a studio where you're going to plug the cable in, and never touch it again, then durability isn't a concern. (It's physical "wear and tear" that destroys a cable). And like I said unless the cable is carrying high power like a speaker cable, you aren't going to hear the difference between a cheap versus expensive cable. But for gigging, you're better off going for durability. It's cheaper in the long run, and less hassle.

 

P.S. Line level signals, like what you need the cable for, are not high power. So durability is really your only concern whether you choose cheap or quality.

 

Yes, a wire is just a wire. But note that an audio cable has lots of wires internally that, together, carry your one audio signal. Let me just put this in as simple laymen's terms as possible. Audio signals are AC -- alternating current. Audio doesn't travel inside a wire, unlike DC. Audio travels on the outside of the wire. Think of the wire as a road, and the audio as a car on the road. An audio cord will have numerous wires in it so your audio has a nice wide road to travel on. After some wear and tear on the cord, some of those wires may break. The road gets smaller. And the audio gets softer. If all those wires break, then there's no road for the audio to travel. And the cord is dead. Cheap cords typically have less, and thinner wires in them, because after all, copper isn't free, So all the roads tend to break more quickly in the cheap cords, especially where the wires attach to the connector. And I should mention that not all XLR (or 1/4" or whatever) connectors are created equal. For example, connectors made by Belkin are noted for quality. Cheaper connectors may use cheaper, softer metal where all the wires attach. That's one area that especially gets a lot of wear and tear, and on cheap cords, all the wires break off easily there. No wires connected = no audio = dead cord.

 

And you know what? There are lots of audio signals flying around in the air from radio towers and other wireless entities. What stops them from landing on your audio cords' wire road and traveling along into your mixer so that you get some Lady Gaga song mixed in your audio? I'll tell you. The wire road is wrapped in rubber. Then there's a second, outer wire road (ie, numerous wires) wrapped around that rubber, ie, There are two roads inside that one cord. This second road is called the "shield". Lady Gaga's audio hits this outer road first (while your audio is traveling down the inner road) and is happy to use that second road (instead of the first). Your audio's road goes to that XLR pin that your mixer expects, and your mixer says "Welcome! I'm gonna amplify you, and invite you into my reverb chamber, and show you a good time". But Lady Gaga's road ends up connected to a different pin on the connector. And your mixer says "Welcome Lady Gaga, how do you like my ground?" which is the electronic equivalent of a bottomless pit where audio disappears forever. Your mixer gives her a push into the pit and cackles "HAHAHAH, die Lady Gaga die!". Or something like that.

 

Anyway, your audio cord has two thick roads in it attached to a sturdy connector, or in the case of a cheap cable, two skimpy dirt paths attached to an easily broken connector.

 

So in summation, a good audio cord is noted for its amount and durability of wires (including shielding) and connectors.

 

So what doesn't make for a quality audio cord? Gold-plated anything. That's marketing B.S. You're not going to hear any difference between gold-plated and copper. You're just going to be suckered into paying way too much for something miniscule dipped in gold. Oxygen-free copper? Bah. Don't fall for the bogus PR crap.

 

And don't buy Monster cables. That's one company that does charge more than they should. Plus they have this evil rep of trying to scare away their smaller (and better) competitors via threatening frivolous lawsuits. They even sue people who say bad things about them.

 

Now that I've bored you to tears, here's the Cliff's Notes:

 

For line level (and other low power) signals, you can buy the cheaper stuff if it's used in a stationary installation. For repeated plugging/unplugging, better quality is worth it.

For high power use like speaker cords, get the better quality.

Better quality means more/thicker wires (and shielding), and sturdier connectors. Not bogus marketing fluff like gold-plating.

Monster cables... no. If you see any lawyers, you didn't hear this from me.

 

If you're still awake, we need to talk about caring for your cables. You know how guys "wrap up" cords really quickly by winding them around their palm and elbow (in a big oval), and then pull them off their arm? Don't do that! That strains the wires, especially at the connectors. It's unnecessary wear and tear. Instead, hold the end of the cord in one hand, and with the other hand, start making loops (with a gentle twist of the wire with each loop) like you're coiling up a rope lasso (or a whip for you S+M lovers), Your cord should look like this when coiled up:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=coiled+cable&hl=en&client=firefox&hs=O6F&sa=X&complete=0&biw=1920&bih=914&tbm=isch&prmd=ivns&tbnid=sF6EE90GU1u7EM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bikebone.com/page/BBSC/PROD/53-5027&docid=ks6LUAbVRjFYeM&w=298&h=360&ei=PUM_TpiVGeG_0AGcj62XCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=859&vpy=183&dur=6480&hovh=247&hovw=204&tx=120&ty=106&page=1&tbnh=162&tbnw=138&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0

 

And see how there's a little band wrapped around it to keep it from unraveling? That's to keep it from getting tangled up with other cords. You know how guys pull their cords from their gig bag, and all the cords are tangled into one big mess that looks like something a 6 foot cat coughed up? So, the guy starts yanking and pulling the cords to untangle them? Strain! You don't need to use a felt band. Just use a long piece of masking tape. When you unwrap the cord, stick the masking tape on the edge of your mixer to reuse at the end of the gig. It also makes a lovely conversation piece. People will invariably ask you what those strips of masking tape hanging off your mixer are for. Tell them it's to ward away evil spirits (ie, drummers, guitarists, and lead singers).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

And your mixer says "Welcome Lady Gaga, how do you like my ground?" which is the electronic equivalent of a bottomless pit where audio disappears forever. Your mixer gives her a push into the pit and cackles "HAHAHAH, die Lady Gaga die!". Or something like that.

:lol:

 

Also, balanced cables and pre-amps (the type that use XLRs and TRSs) employ common mode rejection, which, simply put, rejects common music like the aforementioned Gaga.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Jeff G makes excellent points

 

better cables last longer and maintain the signal longer. Mogami cabling and Neutrik connectors are very good choices. Stay away from Monster- over-priced crap and on the other side Hosa is total crap. If you buy a cheap cable that craps out on you at a critical moment, you lost money on what you bought and what you lose at the gig, plus the creative vibe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Bought some Mogamis (balanced speaker cords). Nice. Neutrik connectors are good quality, but I just hate those SpeakOn locking connectors. You need ape hands to lock/unlock. The newer style are easier, but I still prefer XLR.

 

Monster... Hosa... (shudder). I made a voodoo doll out of all the Hosa cables that crapped out on me (purchased because "I need it tonight" and that's all the local music store carries). I stick pins in it whenever someone says "Hosa", as if he were summoning Beelzebub.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

like everyone else, i get problem with tangling cables. any good way to organize them in a bag?

 

 

Part of my solution is I don't organize them in a bag.

 

Each instrument has its own cables in the case with it (instrument cables, power cable/adapter). It's a lot easier to keep three cables tidy at a time than it is to keep a dozen tidy at once, and this way I never have to guess if that adapter goes with this component or another one. Faster and more reliable setup/teardown if no-one has to think about what goes with what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

things are gold plated to resist corrosion.

 

 

I've never had any "corrosion" (that mattered) on any of my cords (and I've had them 10+ years). Gold-plating is quite simply pointless when used for audio cords. (It just chips off and eventually ends up on the floor. There's your gold plating. You left it at the last gig). Just because certain types of plating (and maybe not the same inappropriate type used on that overpriced cord) may be used on stationary, active electronics (ie, circuit boards), handling entirely different currents/needs, doesn't mean it has any business being on an audio cable. It's a complete waste of money there.

 

If anyone has a corrosion problem with cords, I'd advise him to stop storing his cords in a bucket of acid... even if the cords are gold-plated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think the Monster cable bashing is a little over the top. I see it all the time in these forums.

 

95% of the cabling in my rig is Monster brand. No I didn't buy them because of some magical audiophile properties. I spent 5 years struggling with other brands of cable. Humming and buzzing, shoddy connecters that would crap out at a gig, oxidized connecters when my rig used to be in my parent's basement. I switched to Monster almost ten years ago. Now I have 100% reliabililty, dead quiet shielding, Neutrik connecters on the balanced cables, gold plated contacts to resist corrosion, and a hassle free lifetime replacement warranty (if you keep your receipts). They are also available in a {censored}-ton of weird custom configurations and lengths. Go to Sweetwater's website and look at all the crazy options available. Perfect for clearing out cable clutter when you can get the exact lengths you need and no extra funky adaptors.

 

I will say that their legal department is filled with some litigious bastards. I don't really respect them on that front, but I think they do make a quality product that is backed up with confidence. Albeit at a premium price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

If anyone has a corrosion problem with cords, I'd advise him to stop storing his cords in a bucket of acid... even if the cords are gold-plated.

 

 

I actually did have this problem many years ago when I lived at home with my parents. I had to keep my rig in the basement and some of my cables would get grainy green {censored} on them and it would get into the jacks. Gold plating DOES help alleviate this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I use a variety of cable brands in my rig and lately the characteristic that I've come to appreciate to most is flexibility. I have a few of the cheaper Monster 100 series cables and they are excellent in this regard. A few of my Live Wire cables are way too stiff and constantly kink up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I too own Monster primarily for my keyboards. They are 1000's, tuff as nails and you can really hear some clarity difference and added signal gain when using them. I still use a Radial stereo DI to take care of buzzing issues. I also own Livewire, Proco's top of the line cables and Mogami. My Mogami cables kink the worst, go figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Monster cables are always very well made, and usually at least 4 times the price for a cable of equal quality. They're not wrong, they're just not a good value.

 

The main issues on XLR cable quality:

1) quality connectors that won't oxidize, to avoid contact resistance that robs signal and causes scratchy noises

2) good shielding, to avoid picking up hum/buzz

3) good conductors, to maintain a good signal and not break easily (more total copper is better, more strands is better)

4) consistent, low capacitance, to avoid losing highs on longer runs

5) minimal microphonics, to avoid hearing it when people walk on or bump the cables

 

Cheap cables can be poor in every way. However, there have always been good ones at reasonably low prices. Sorry, been too long so I don't know any current makers to recommend.

 

Gold plated connectors avoid contact resistance. In 30 years, I've had issues with that on 1/4" connectors, but not XLR, so I wouldn't bother with gold plated XLRs.

 

To bundle up cables, I use the good old-fashioned "Roadie knot" for mic, line, MIDI, and speaker cables -- anything 25' or less. It's simple, quick, and effective, but not the best for the cable or for packing the most into the smallest space. To do it, just double the cable over and over until it it's short enough to tie into a simple overhand knot.

 

To be kinder to the cable and fit more cables in less space, coiling works better.

 

For cables that don't twist easily, there's a simple but slighly time-consuming fix. As you coil the cable, just drop each loop on the opposite side. That is, start by making a loop, holding the loop in front of you so you're looking at it sideways (you can't see through the hole). Add the next loop on the right, and the next one on the left, etc. This twists the cable once to the left, then once to the right, etc, so in the end there's at most one twist total. When unwrapping it, you have to lift each loop off individually: there's no grabbing the end and tossing the loop like you would a rescue rope. Takes a bit of time, but well worth it. Then secure with a cable tie and pack away. Since it's flat, it fits more in less space than the roadie knot, and it doesn't torque on the cable either. You get quick at it after a few gigs. :-)

 

That said, I have quite a number of 30-yr-old cables that I've tied in roadie knots hundreds and hundreds of times without causing any problems, other than not lying totally flat when unwound.

 

Simple twist-ties are great and cheap. Wrap/tie it around one end of the cable, and always leave that on. When coiling, just wrap the rest of the twist-tie around the bundle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Monster cables are always very well made, and usually at least 4 times the price for a cable of equal quality. They're not wrong, they're just not a good value.

 

 

the connectors on monster's xlr cables are complete {censored}e, and prone to quick failure. maybe if you only work in your studio and plug everything in once and leave it it's ok, but for touring or if you work in a venue they are to be avoided like the plague...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

i tend to treat my cables as 'wear items', with replacement cycles based on intented use and expense. using this methodology i tend to end up with the livewire-esque brands, and they almost always last their intended cycle.

 

many static connections do not need their cables replaced, mainly the ones going to the instruments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

the connectors on monster's xlr cables are complete {censored}e, and prone to quick failure. maybe if you only work in your studio and plug everything in once and leave it it's ok, but for touring or if you work in a venue they are to be avoided like the plague...

Odd. I've seen a number of Monster cables, and even have a pair (don't remember how I ended up with them) and they look and work as good as the best. Are you talking about a specific type of connector? I only have experience with their 1/4" and RCA cables.

 

BTW, Monster HDMI cables aren't the best; Belden makes the best and you can find them at bluejeanscables.com. Quality HDMI cables aren't usually necessary, except for long runs or cables buried in a wall that would be hard to replace. Cheapos are fine for 12 feet and under, especially if you're not using "deep color".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

i tend to treat my cables as 'wear items', with replacement cycles based on intented use and expense. using this methodology i tend to end up with the livewire-esque brands, and they almost always last their intended cycle.


many static connections do not need their cables replaced, mainly the ones going to the instruments.

Do you replace them after they fail, or mark them with a date and replace them after a time period elapses? Or do you just replace the whole set every X years?

 

I use a lot of the modular cables where you cut the cable stock and jam the solid brass ends on, screwing in the shield conductor. Those do fail at a higher rate than quality prebuilt cables, but the repair is simple: snip off the end and jam it back in. For live I always run stereo, and if I get one failure I just run that one mono or pull a spare. In the home studio it's only a problem when there are lots of cables on a given path and finding the one bad one can be tiresome. But it doesn't happen often, and I like having cables that are just the right lenght. Biggest problem with these cables is that people think they're cool and they tend to disappear! But I wouldn't recommend them for critical applications, especially complex ones where finding the bad cable takes more than a moment. Beside the point here though, since they're not XLR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Do you replace them after they fail, or mark them with a date and replace them after a time period elapses? Or do you just replace the whole set every X years?

 

off topic to the XLR question (sorry!) but,

 

i purchase very inexpensive molded - type cables from Markertek for use with my tabletop equipment, keyboards, and rack gear -

 

http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Audio-Cables/1-4in-to-1-4in-Phone-Cables/TecNec-Cables-Connectors/SP-SP-3.xhtml?SP-SP-3

 

they come in a variety of different connections, which i require as all my equipment is exceedingly goofy. 1/4 to 1/8th, RCA to 1/4, MIDI, 1/4 to 1/4 and XLR to 1/4 male and female i've tried. they're cables that are intended for light use, but as such they're perfect for table top gear (modular, drum machines, sampler, pedals etc) and keyboards. these are the cables i cycle through, i do replace the 1/4 cables every couple years. i keep the ones that are still good in the drawer for aux use and use the new ones. honestly i've had more HOSAs fail on me than these particular cables, though the hosa shielding is thicker. here's a picture:

 

IMG00026-20110818-1855.jpg

 

the black one is the HOSA, and is intended for comparison. it has failed at the connector. the stress relief on the orange/grey colored hosas tends to fail more often it seems. i probably ran over it in a creativity - filled roll across the room in the 'ole office chair, but anything could have killed it. it's an old cable at this point. the grey cables are the markertek 'tecnec' series molded cables, all a nice bland grey and very inexpensive. i have had one fail, but for their intended use i am more than happy with the 30 + more that i have. especially since one 60 dollar order can replace the whole batch!

 

before these i used hosas, and to save money sometimes i would purchase snakes and cut the outer shell. voila 8 molded, colorful cables. and cheaper than buying individually! but still the price can't compare to the TecNecs.

 

for guitars and fancier keyboards and such i still use the livewire type metal barrel plug connectors like everyone else and replace as needed. same for XLR cables, i think i'm using Audix cables for some reason...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...