ALT DAWs: How do you feel about Digital Performer or Cubase?

[Franz Schiller]

So I used to use Pro Tools, and it was great at audio editing, but stank at MIDI, and then I switched to Logic because I was using it at work.

 

So in the course of learning Logic, I learned something important: I hate Logic.

 

It is so clunky and unfriendly and uninspiring.

 

I tried out Ableton Live, but I'm not a loop-oriented person, so it wasn't the right feel.

 

I like Reaper a lot, and I'm considering switching to it, but I would like a few built in plug-ins and soft synths...not a whole lot, just a few.

 

So I'm examining my options and I am particularly interested in Digital Performer and Cubase.

 

How are they with audio editing? Like, how do they feel?

 

How are they with notation and scoring functions?

 

Do they have any interesting sequencing functions?

 

Thoughts and opinions?

[Franz Schiller]

Really? Nobody?

 

Well, I suppose this is the wrong forum. I just feel more comfy here.

 

Okay...i guess I'll slouch on over to the Recording forum.

[zzzxtreme]

technically wrong forum, but questions like these are usually answered/discusses here. maybe others are busy

don't hesitate to ask again here

[bruto]

I just talked to a friend that still records and sequences with Digital Performer. He's used it since day one and simply knows all of its ins and outs. He records professionally with it.

 

I still use Cubase now and then - usually as a VST host. I also use the step sequencer on it sometimes.

 

I'm on a Windows XP system, so I primarily use Sonar 8.5. It records extremely well.

[donaldcrunk]

i use DP exclusively, but used PT in school + work etc. i'm too busy atm to write a properly in depth reply, you may need to give me a day or two if possibles thnx

[carbon111]

Go back to PT, it's probably caught up in MIDI capabilities now. Seriously, there's lots of changes under the hood in recent years. For me, it's the most intuitive DAW out there. Love the multi-tool. MIDI is great now. C'mon in, the water's fine.

 

Tried DP...nice but I'd have to convert everything to Mac. Nightmare.

[DJ RAZZ]

Well between the 2, I am more comfortable with Cubase.

[selfinflikted]

I actually prefer Cubase also. I can't really explain why, it just 'feels' better to me.

[Franz Schiller]

Sorry I was so impatient guys. THe internets make my ADD kick in.

 

Anyways, the thing about DP that interests me the most, is the "Chunks" feature, and the ability to work with multiple sequences inside the same project.

 

For anyone familiar with video editing programs, the ability to nest one timeline inside another, is really, really powerful. And it speaks to my way of thinking.

 

Also, I've read that DP has some kind of easy awesome tempo control track...that makes Logic seem like math class.

[Mahuska]

Mac or PC? Haven't used DP but have been using Cubase forever and have been demoing Reaper. If you are on a Windows machine I wouldn't be concerned about included plug-ins. There are so many usable freebies and affordable VSTis so that

wouldn't be an issue. As far as workflow I have Cubase down to the point I move along quickly. I use keyboard shortcuts and my Yamaha KX 49 midi controller that integrates so well with Cubase . Haven't used the Scoring features, but like the drum editor.

Reaper's midi capabilities hasn't caught up with Cubase yet, but has some serious audio and routing options going on. Hope this helps

[bad andy]

I've been using DP for years, and it works great for me. I can't really speak to many of the others, especially in their current versions. However, you might find some more in-depth info on DP over at the motunation.com forums.

[Franz Schiller]

 

Mac or PC?

 

 

Mac...I probably should've stated that at the onset.

[Franz Schiller]

 

I've been using DP for years, and it works great for me. I can't really speak to many of the others, especially in their current versions. However, you might find some more in-depth info on DP over at the motunation.com forums.

 

 

Cool, thanks...I'll check that out!

[mpegsucks]

While not perfect, DP is my go to DAW for MANY years. Its musically simple, logically laid out, plug ins are great, accepts 3rd party plug-ins with great ease, the HD192 interfaces are excellent with the Black Lion modifications. You can customize just about everything to work the way YOU want to work, even design and build your own on-screen console.

I had a voiceover session last night, recorded the vox, strip silenced the performance, normalized with limiting, imported an mpeg4 video with audio, real time scrubbed the soundbites to sync with the visuals and texts, bounced to my desktop and into my You Send It delivery system, all in 1 hour. Client was blown away.

Its only crashed on me once in a year.

[donaldcrunk]

as i mentioned, i've been using DP for a while now, since i believe 4.0 . it's been a productive experience, there have definitely been times throughout the 7 years or so i've had it that it has caused some difficulties, either compatibility issues or just relative instability - some versions of 5 are like this.

 

currently DP is very stable on my 2010 macbook pro, and it is as fully featured a recording system as i could ask for. i'm not a huge 3rd party plugin person, but more and more of them are becoming available for the AU format - though cubase will have the lead on 3rd party instruments and plugins since it supports VST. the ones that _are_ available for AU, however, are generally of very high quality - not nearly the same level of standardization as RTAS plugins, but you can tell people actually give a {censored} when they're writing them (unlike MANY VSTs that i've used in days of yore).

 

as previously mentioned, the latest DP version is fully customizable, all the way down to making it look just like cubase if you want. i've experimented with several ways of working with this DAW, i'll break down a couple as i'm in the mood for a ramble -

 

the infinite strip of tape - this is most useful in largely hardware rigs, where the I/O doesn't change as the recording project continues - i won't even make a new sequence. just separate each song with some dead air, and use the same tracks for the next song. when i had my console set up this is what i did - and this is where the 'conductor track' at the top that was alluded to earlier comes in so handy. it's just basically a seperate MIDI-like track for master tempo that you can set independently for each section of your recording. both the editing grid and MIDI clock snap to that tempo as soon as the playback head hits it, it's great. also very useful for soundtrack work!

 

separate sequences per song - this is pretty much what it sounds like. this is what i do if i'm using a portable interface or something of that nature. DP has a lot of ways to save various presets and templates so that even though it _feels_ like you're opening a new project with each new sequence, you can actually get the overall mixes to sound very similar with the 'virtual racks' and other stuff.

 

i've also opened a new project for each new song, this was what i did when i was a n3wb. not recommended.

 

as carbon mentioned, though, PT has come a long way with midi functionality. i believe i used Pro Toons 5 at school, they had just hopped on the MIDI boat then and it wasn't so great for that. I liked editing audio with it _a lot_ though - if you do a lot of intensive editing Pro Toons has some better ways of doing that than DP does. there's an engineer that works in the studio in my backyard who has been using PT for a great long time, and he occasionally gets grumpy about some of the ways editing works in DP as he's forced to use this (the studio mac is not intel yet, and therefore can't support the new any-interface Pro Toons versions). Some of his complaints are legitimate, some are easy workarounds but people don't like to change.

 

 

DP also has that wireless control app for the new versions that you can DL and run transport and mix levels etc from your Ipad/IpodTouch/Iphone . that's pretty nice for a project studio artist like myself who might have to be across the room away from the computer recording a different instrument. PT definitely has the edge as far as dedicated control surfaces and compatibility with 3rd party surfaces, though - but if you're thinking about a control surface it's probably best to base your DAW around which control surface you like the best. they don't all play nice together.

[Gribs]

I use Live and Cubase. I upgraded Live at the last payed upgrade cycle but not Cubase. I just did not see anything new in Cubase that was of immediate interest.

 

Live is far more than a loop player/arranger. I find it pretty easy to use. I can use Cubase to record and host VSTs, edit midi, and whatnot, but I find the interface a bit annoying and less intuitive than Live. Also the version that I own uses a dongle (I am not sure about the latest upgrade) which you might find to be a PITA or not care.

[Tuba Four]

Been a DP user since 2.7, and although I took a small detour with Logic 8, I'm back in DP full time. Never used Cubase, so can't comment. For me DP is simply the most intuitive and simple (yet extremely deep) DAW of choice. IMO, if you're coming from PT, DP is the DAW of choice. I have a friend who has PT and working within it is very similar.

 

The DP plugins are excellent, and getting better with every release or update. The VI's aren't top notch but very useable. I have all outboard keys anyway with the exception of Trilian, Stylus RMX and VB3. I have other VI plugins but they remain unused for the most part.

 

Another nice thing about DP is the existence of a community that is very helpful over at http://www.motunation.com/forum/index.php

 

HTH,

 

aL

[ekeys]

Cubase is huge in Europe. Alot of press given in their tech mags to it, such as in Music Tech, Computer Music, Future music, etc. DP has a strong following in the film world in the usa. I know it is an awesome program, just don't hear much about it. It is a crowed field.

[Tuba Four]

Oh, another feature I sorely missed in Logic was the ability to create and save multiple mixes of the same tune. That's just very handy when you want to experiment with another mix and want to A/B two or more mixes or if you want to save your mixes to work on them later when you've regained some objectivity. I've mixed some tunes where I had 23 separate and distinct mixes and I could go back to any of them within the same project file to see/hear the changes and compare and contrast.

 

I know Logic is not an issue here, but, it's my best point of reference having used it for a while.

 

Where DP also shines is in midi. For example, in DP you can line up a midi track and an audio track to line up your midi with audio. It's a simple and elegant solution.

 

Also, using multiple keyboard as sound sources and controllers in DP is a breeze. Simply select the input keyboard and its channel, the output board (or VI) and its channel and you're set to go!!! It's that simple.

 

aL

[Re-Member]

 

I use Live and Cubase. I upgraded Live at the last payed upgrade cycle but not Cubase. I just did not see anything new in Cubase that was of immediate interest. Live is far more than a loop player/arranger. I find it pretty easy to use. I can use Cubase to record and host VSTs, edit midi, and whatnot, but I find the interface a bit annoying and less intuitive than Live. Also the version that I own uses a dongle (I am not sure about the latest upgrade) which you might find to be a PITA or not care.

 

 

+1

 

While Ableton's "Session View" functions more like a looped Groovebox sequencer, switching it over to "Arrangement View" lays everything out horizontally to function like a more traditional multitrack DAW. I used to record on Adobe Audition and it took me awhile to adjust to the Session View, but it was worth the effort to learn. It functions a lot like my MC-505 and really easy to work out ideas on the fly before laying them down to solid tracks.

 

My only complaint with it is that it doesn't export multi-channel MIDI files. Surprised they haven't updated that yet.

[Helmey]

DP has always been my sequencer of choice even before it was called Digital Performer. All of my experience is Mac-based.

 

It started as a program called Performer which was a MIDI only sequencer with notation. Since then, they obviously added audio and have been at the cutting edge ever since. If you are familiar with Pro Tools then DP is probably the most similar sequencing program. We used to use DP as a front end for my partner's Pro Tools system when tracking because it had so many more features and the audio editing and manipulation is fantastic. The only reason we would use PT for mixing was when we wanted to automate the TDM effects. We have been using Digital Performer to do surround recording and mixing for over 10 years and it has always worked like a champ despite throwing a ton of tracks at it and mixing across 7 speakers.

 

MOTU has continued to add tons of new features including great plug-ins and soft synths, so it's a very complete, mature and stable system. I won't repeat what others have written about the ability to make it exactly what you need it to be, but I will verify that it is so deep that I would expect you will never use half of what it is capable of. MOTU also developed Volta, which if you have modular gear, is an amazingly cool tool that uses your MOTU interface to integrate your modular synths into the DP environment.

 

Digital Performer is very much an American software program and it is not common overseas where Cubase rules. I tried Cubase many years ago but it didn't impress me enough to want to switch. I'm sure it's a lot better than it used to be... The only thing that used to give me pause about switching was the VST compatibility of Cubase. MOTU is not very VST compatible, and used to require a VST wrapper which was very kludgy. AU is the new Mac standard for plug ins which MOTU had a big hand in developing, so now it works fantastic and offers a lot of sophisticated options including full Rewire support. They also sell Unisyn which is one of the few remaining synth patch editing software out there, so you can catalog and edit most of your keyboard presets and select the patches by name in DP . They sell all the interfaces too - MIDI and audio - so it ends up being a very complete and tight system (and they are great products too!).

 

I would expect that DP is most popular with composers and film scorers since it has all of the key features that would be required in an orchestral or film environment such as excellent notation and tight and easy integration of video synched to the audio for doing film cues and SFX hits.

[13ghostsofscoobydoo]

My only real DAW experience is with Logic Express 8, Reaper and Cubase 6 Elements. I have a enough plug-ins and virtual instruments/effects that the other bells and whistles of the others aren't needed for me. I use a lot of Midi, and for me Cubase is the best. It does that part really, really well.

[xpander]

i use Digital Performer, it's extremely robust and reliable. as far as i know, it predates every single commercially available software sequencer for any platform currently on the market so i wouldn't call it alternative. i also use MaxMSP, i've been a user since the pre-MSP Opcode days.

[projectwoofer]

I've been using Cubase since version 2 for Atari ST! Really like it although I have switched to Nuendo now, which is very similar. I have no experience with DP but I don't particularly like Logic or Live...