Looking for stage/synth suggestions for church musician

[skiz77]

Background is in piano. For many years I've played piano/keys in a church band (bass, guitars, drums, keys). I use their equipment mostly. Most recently with an older Korg Workstation, then moved to a Yamaha CP300. (I also have a Kawai upright digital piano at home and have used other options in the distant past.)

 

​I did like both machines. If I could somehow merge the two, I might be happy. But it's time to look for something. We go on the road 3-4 times per year, and the CP300 now needs to stay where it is. I need my own equipment. Whatever I get, I also intend to do some studio work, not just piano either.

 

Clearly, buying another CP300 isn't the best choice. Sure, it's a great stage piano, but not a good choice because:

​1) I'll still have access to the current one most of the time anyway.

​2) The speakers are nice, but impractical. First, they're too heavy, and second, our sound guy hates when I crank the volume because it makes the outputs too hot on the board. So they're turned down so low that they're useless anyway.

​3) Layering string/synth sounds behind piano is mostly what I do today. One problem is that things get muddy fast (sustained piano + strings which should not sustain).

​4) I'd like to occasionally play some other sounds like meditative cello. CP300 patches aren't fantastic, and there's literally zero control over articulation & expression. No aftertouch, no alternative control except a mod wheel.

 

​A Korg workstation does what I want, and I could probably live with the compromised action, but the one I used to play would occasionally lock up during a live performance and required a reboot. That's not good when you're in the middle of church. The reboot times are far too long still it seems.

 

​I tried a Nord Stage 2 at someone's suggestion. I was a bit overwhelmed with all the controls and finally got it to sound good. But the action was something I felt I could live with, but didn't love. The Piano 2 seems like it might be better in this regard, but I'd have to sacrifice aftertouch. Also, the Nords run expensive, so it better do everything I need for a while. Are the strings/synth & cello patches good enough and is there enough there to be expressive?

 

​Given my affinity for Yamaha, the Motif sounds like an awesome piece of equipment. The patches seem fantastic, the control awesome - perfect for studio. The action, again, perhaps I could learn to love. But is this practical for occasional road use? Also, the current model seems a little dated, but maybe newer isn't always better.

 

​CP4 seems like a good stage/controller, not sure if it would meet all my needs, but maybe that plus a separate sub $1000 61-key controller + soft synth? Soft synths would be great for occasional live use + studio, but certainly not something I should rely on as my only option. I also believe that this type of 2-board rig would allow some layering to fix the muddy issue. And when not on the road, I could do this with the CP300 instead of the CP4. I do have a Surface Pro that I can use as the synth, and because it has touch, perhaps even for additional articulation/expression control.

 

​Lots of choices, seems like no perfect option. What other ideas have I missed? Budget could be as high as $5000 for the whole deal, but I really want a setup I'm going to love for years to come. And cheaper would be really nice, especially since it would allow some flexibility should I need to get more later. If I can get two boards I'd be happy with for less, maybe that's the route?

 

​Thanks!

[skiz77]

Oh and willing to consider used or other crazy ideas. For example, what about a couple of controllers + a rack synth? Looks like you can pick up an older Motif rack for pretty cheap.

[wesg]

I'm using a CP4 with a VR09 these days. I get into trouble sometimes trying to do very complicated things, but the rig is extremely intuitive, easy to run, and pretty powerful. And the action on the CP4 is outta sight.

 

A CP4 with a 61-key Kronos might be pretty incredible.

[skiz77]

Thanks for the feedback. Since you're running two boards, do you use MIDI between them and then audio out of one only, or do you use an audio mixer?

 

​Oh and do you think the CP4 is worth the price as compared to the CP40 or something like a P series? For the price of a CP4, you can get an S90, which probably isn't the perfect stage machine, but might hold me off in other areas for a short while.

[onelife]

I play a CP5 and think it is a fabulous piano with some synth capabilities but portability is an issue. The synth sounds, although they are not really editable, are very useful and of MOTIF quality.

 

Based on my experience with the CP5, I would recommend the CP4. It's all the great things about the CP5 (including the great action and actual wooden keys) but without some of the less useful features, an easier to use interface and a much more portable package.

 

To answer your question, I believe that for a piano player, the CP4 is definitely worth the premium - even if just for the keyboard alone.

 

[video=youtube;cKbnO-ycVbY]

[skiz77]

Love hearing what you guys are using. Thanks for the insights. Do you find that MOTIF quality synth samples are useful if you don't have the articulation control (say not just for layering, but actual soloing)? Or is there a way to handle that somewhere internal or even with an external controller? I get that I am probably just wanting to do something I shouldn't try to do with a true stage piano (other than, perhaps the Nord).

 

I guess the next big question I'd have about the CP4 vs CP300 - the thing I find most limiting aside from lack of articulation and quality synth sounds - is the lack of control over effects. Sure, for something like REVERB there's a button, everything else is buried in menus. What if I want the sustain pedal to only apply to one layer but not the other? What if I want reverb on strings but not on piano? Maybe I haven't spent enough time customizing or using the SONG features?

 

​The one thing that I never hear anyone complain about with the CP4 is the key action, so I guess at the end of the day, it may come down to sitting and playing with it vs. the alternatives.

[onelife]

As a CP5 owner I cannot over emphasize how great the action is. The CP4 has the same wooden keys, a more intuitive user interface and is more portable.

 

The editing of synth sounds is limited on the CP5 (and I expect it is the same on the CP4) but I find that the sounds are usable as is. It's easy to set up so the sustain and/or expression pedals apply to specific layers - for example, piano in the right hand with sustain and acoustic bass in the left hand without sustain and a pad sound across the entire keyboard being controlled by the expression pedal.

 

 

 

 

 

[skiz77]

Awesome feedback about the CP. Either the CP300 doesn't do this, or I just haven't dug deep enough. If the CP4 does, then you're right, I do love the Yamaha feel.

[Outkaster]

CP4 get's my vote also.

[midinut]

I'm going to throw a wrench in the mix and suggest you look into getting a MacBook Pro and MainStage. There are numerous church musicians using this with whatever controller(s) they choose. Just look at some of the Hillsong players. Abel Mendoza has a boatload of tutorials on how to set things up. It really does open up a whole new world for all musicians, not just church musicians. Also, should you head down that path, look into Spectrasonics Omnisphere as a pad machine behind your piano sounds. Awesomeness!

[The Pro]

I'm going to go even further out on a limb and suggest you look at the Casio PX-5s or the new PX-560. They are ultralight weight and have good acoustic and electric pianos plus pads and synths. The PX-560 is an arranger keyboard which may be os use to you for live rhythm tracks.