Improving Basic Live Sound Rig

[jtillinghast]

Hi all-- I'm wondering what are some basic (i.e., not replacing keyboards yet) improvements I can make to my live rig. I play in a rock/blues cover band. Most common sounds are piano, B3, Rhodes and Clavinet. I'm currently running a Kurz PC88 and an Alesis 6.1. I DI (passive) the PC 88 since it's unbalanced audio out. I run them both into a passive 4-channel mixer and then go mono out to house PA (most of the time).

 

I have not tweaked with any of the stock patches on either (except for the usual sliders, wheels, etc.). I've found decent patches that I like, but I just don't love the overall sound at the gigs. Sounds a little flat and muddy. I like the action on the PC88, and that's 80% of the playing, but the piano sound has a hard time cutting through the band. I'm wondering if I should add in some color through an EQ, or perhaps an effects processor (reverb? a multi-processor?). Alternatively, is it investing the time to tweak the individual patches to add in some color?

 

Thanks!

[wesg]

Reverb is your friend when you are a solo act, and your #1 enemy when playing in a band.

 

You have enough equipment to sound fine in a band, although your Hammond will never sound great until you're lugging the real deal IMO.

 

*crystal ball time*

 

You're playing way too much with your left hand, and you have selected your piano patches to sound like a real piano. Back off on the left hand, declutter your chord voicings and switch to a Bright Piano patch with no reverb. If you have per-voice EQ try rolling off the bottom end 3dB per octave starting at 200Hz.

 

If you want better than crystal ball action, post some video from a gig.

 

BTW, what mixer are you running that doesn't have quarter-inch inputs?

 

OH! If you are running stereo into your mixer and collapsing that to mono for FOH, it will sound very very bad and lifeless due to phasing issues.

 

Wes

[jtillinghast]

Thanks, Wes. I should have been more clear on the routing. I'm running out of L/Mono from out of both boards and then out of the submixer to FOH. The board does have 1/4", but the sound out of the PC88 was very low-level until I put the DI in line. It's a cheap crappy submix board (Behringer), so I might need to go back and retest it without the DI?

 

The "choosing patches that sound like a piano" rings true-- I've avoided using the "Stage Piano" sound on the 88 since it sounds really bright and edgy to my ears, but I may need to try it out in the mix and get away from the default piano sound. For the EQ, are you talking about at the submix board, or at the keyboards themselves? Guess I'm not sure what you mean by "per voice."

 

Thanks again!

[wesg]

You should be able to run the output from a PC88 into a Behringer board (which one?) without going through a DI, although I haven't used the PC88 myself. But I did read the spec sheet. A DI's purpose is to drop your level from line level down to mic level, provide galvanic isolation (breaking ground loops), and allowing the signal to be transmitted over long distances. Many mixing boards also do not put the line input through the mic preamps, this allows us to improve the signal to noise ratio sometimes.

 

It sounds to me like you should try your "Stage Piano" patch -- and also make sure your band mates act like pros and leave space in the mix for the piano. A good mix is not a battle of the volumes, it is a dance of frequencies.

[wesg]

Oh, and re the EQ - I meant your performance/patch/whatever Kurzweil calls their sound. The EQ curve I suggested works on a piano sound, but would sound like crap on, say, strings where you're supposed to be supporting the bottom end. If your board can't do it, don't worry about it.

[happwith12strin]

You might consider a Tube Preamp to add a little color.

 

If you like the action of the Kurz PC88 use it as a midi controller and add a rack synth, such as a Yamaha Motif, Korg Triton, Roland Fantom. About $325-350 used, Guitar Center.

 

Consider a better DI box.

[wasjamieb]

I used my PC88 from the time I bought it new, until it crashed on me earlier this year. I pretty much stayed on the Stage Piano 440 if I was playing piano.

 

jamieb

+++++

[onelife]

...

OH! If you are running stereo into your mixer and collapsing that to mono for FOH, it will sound very very bad and lifeless due to phasing issues.

 

I'm not as familiar with the PC88 as I am with Yamaha pianos but I have noticed (with Yamaha) that the piano sound does not work very well in mono - even if I use the mono output jack.

 

I would suggest trying your setup in both stereo and mono (including your monitors) to determine if there is much of a difference.

[Outkaster]

Something some guys don't realize is to keep things simple, not saying you aren't but if you have decent front of house sound you should be OK. It's just a matter of getting a good comfort level as you can.

[delaware dave]

Honestly, you need to upgrade the keyboards' sounds as they are dated. A Motif rack would provide an update to nearly everything except the B3. There are organ modules available that would upgrade the B3. So for under $1000 you could add two simple racks/modules, while continuing to use your current keyboards to trigger those modules (as well as using them for sounds that you do like out of those keyboards) while adding maybe 3 minutes to your setup time.