Members jtillinghast Posted November 25, 2015 Members Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hi all-- brand new to the forum. I'm a bit lost on monitoring and adjusting volume during gigs. I'm a piano player adjusting to playing keys in a 4-piece rock cover group. I have two keyboards that I mix down into a 4-channel mixer, and I usually run through the house PA. I have a Roland amp, but I try and go through the house PA both to save the footprint on stage in small venues and for simplicity. Guitar and bass usually don't do much out front through the house. We sometimes have a sound person during the show, sometimes have one just for setup, and sometimes get shown where the board is and told not to @$&( anything up. I feel like I have no clue how much to vary my volume during the gig-- jumping between patches and different arrangements (or solo vs. rhythm), I feel like I'm constantly adjusting the volume on both boards, but I don't have a sense of overall mix since I'm the only one through the house. Is that common? Should I go to an external amp (although wouldn't that make it even harder to balance)? Any advice? Also, I don't use any volume pedals right now-- are those really important for these constant adjustments? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 25, 2015 Members Share Posted November 25, 2015 Go to an external amp -- even better, a powered PA speaker -- to monitor yourself. A good FOH mix starts with a good stage mix. There are no exceptions to this rule. I'm not big on volume pedals, I'm big on discipline. Rule #1 - if you cannot hear the soloist, you are playing too loud! Everybody in the band needs to respect this rule. Next, I turn up a bit (around 6dB) for solos. I just use my volume knob for this. Sound check your loudest level so you make sure you're not going clip the mic pres in the console. Volume pedals are most useful when you're trying to do things like swell string sections. Expression pedals are mandatory for organ and are used constantly in organ technique. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtillinghast Posted November 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks, Wes! For monitors, the guitarist and I usually share a monitor from the board since we're pretty close together and do a ton of vocal harmony. Do you mean a dedicated monitor for keys before it sends to the board? Organ technique is a whole nother beast that I need to wrap my brain around. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 26, 2015 Members Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yep. A dedicated monitor for your piano is not strictly necessary, but given what you're doing, it will make your job a whole lot easier. I tend to set up on stage with my Leslie to my left, the piano/synth monitor right beside it, and my vocal monitor on my right. I am perpendicular to the stage, stage right. This makes my piano/synth monitor and my Leslie easy to level-balance because they are in the same space, and they each bleed about the same as a guitar amp. If there are enough monitor channels available, I'll put vocals and piano together in one monitor, dedicated to me, and won't bother with the piano/synth monitor beside the Leslie. Using a shared vocal monitor for monitoring my piano is almost a non-starter. The problem with that is that if I am sharing a monitor mix with the guitar guys, they think the piano is too loud, bitch and moan that they can't hear their vocals, and then either turn up the guitars to overpower the monitor or get the sound guy to turn down the piano. Then I can't hear myself at all when playing quiet passages. So. I don't share my monitor mix unless I have a dedicated keyboard amp. Owning a few powered speakers really opens up your options, and you should totally make the investment. On my next gig, the stage is 25' wide, but there are only two wedges provided by the house (plus the drum monitor). That's a problem, there are four of near the front row, and I can't hear the vocals properly because there are congas and an ORGAN between the closest wedge and my ear. I will solve this problem easily by bringing two speakers. If the sound guy can get an extra aux send down the snake and into my speaker (he probably can), I will use one speaker and get him to run me a separate monitor mix. If he can't, I will do a piano/synth speaker on my left, and get a vocal mix on my right by plugging into the house system's "link out" port (the house wedges are JBL PRX 712M). Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtillinghast Posted November 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 26, 2015 Do you have other instruments in your shared vocal monitor? Separate question -- I have a small amp right now that I can use as a monitor. Probably not as preferable since it isn't as "clean" or neutral, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 26, 2015 Members Share Posted November 26, 2015 On a small stage, the shared vocal monitor will have acoustic guitar in it, because it's not plugged into an amp. But not very loud. Other than that, just vocals. In my experience, it's easier to get the harmonies tight that way. Bigger stages usually mean more monitor sends. I'll often ask for a bit of lead guitar in mine, because he stands 20 feet away from me. Also acoustic guitar and congas (conga guy is QUIET). Sometimes if the room is funny I'll also ask for a bit of kick, a bit snare, and some bass (high passed at 100Hz). But usually less is more. As for your amp - what is it? If it's a guitar amp, pass. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtillinghast Posted November 30, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2015 So looking at my sub-mix board, I only have main outs L/R and headphones. I usually just run L/Mono from each board and then L Main out of the sub-board to FOH. That's doesn't leave me any channel for a monitor, does it? (Assuming that I can't use the Phones jack for a monitor?) I could run stereo and then run L to FOH and R to a monitor, but that seems like it would cause issues with any patches that use stereo (and there are a few). This means I'm stuck relying on stage monitors unless I expand the sub-mix board? Amp is a Roland KC-- forget which model number off-hand. Big enough that I don't want to haul it if it can be avoided, and it makes staging nightmares in some of our smaller venues. Thanks for all your help--Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 1, 2015 Members Share Posted December 1, 2015 What board is your sub-mix board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtillinghast Posted December 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2015 Mackie Mix5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 2, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 You mention "both boards" but it sounds as if your rig is 2 keys into the Mix5, and then to whatever PA is being used. Is the house board (whether your band's or the venue's) the second board to which you're referring? As the Mix5 has no Aux, there's no actual "monitor" send, but if you're only mixing keys with it, then all you need is an available output. The L/R main outs could be split house/monitor with relative levels set via the channel balance controls. Not ideal, but works if you don't need to constantly adjust levels with it. You're having trouble because you're on stage and can't hear the house mix..it doesn't matter whether you're in the PA or your own amp, you can't hear what the audience hears. A trusted person could help during (assuming there is one) sound check so you and the band can work out levels for solos, rhythm, etc.. Just note that without a sound person, any conventional PA/backline system will be difficult to get right in the house, let alone the on-stage monitoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 2, 2015 Members Share Posted December 2, 2015 Wow, the Mix5 is REALLY basic. I agree with Craig -- run your keyboards into the Mix5 in mono, pan all your channels to the middle, send one side to the FOH mixer and the other to your amp. Unless your amp has a built-in mixer (like the KC-880) -- in that case, just use that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtillinghast Posted December 6, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2015 Thanks, guys-- I'm going to try the L/R split and see what happens. Now that I have a better sense of what I'm looking for, I may try and flip the Mix5 for something with a monitor send. I could use the mixer on the amp, but again I'm trying to avoid bringing an amp at all to cut down on the stage footprint. I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 Look for a cheap mixer with "built in effects" where the effects are controlled by the aux 2 sends. The reason you want that is that the aux 2 send will be POST fader and the aux 1 send will be PRE fader. Then don't use the effects return at all (leave it turned to zero), and use the aux 2 bus. Post-fader means that that bus' level depends on the main bus' level. A good way to set this up, then, is to send the aux2 bus to your speaker and the main outs to the front of house. The keys will be balanced the same in your speaker and at the front desk. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PianoPete Posted February 20, 2016 Members Share Posted February 20, 2016 Thanks' date=' guys-- I'm going to try the L/R split and see what happens. Now that I have a better sense of what I'm looking for, I may try and flip the Mix5 for something with a monitor send. I could use the mixer on the amp, but again I'm trying to avoid bringing an amp at all to cut down on the stage footprint. I appreciate the help![/quote'] Some pianos have higher notes panned more right and lower notes panned more left. Might want to check that if you split the L/R outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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