Members Re-Member Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 I've been a Roland user most of my life and last year got a Korg Microstation. Let's just say that the sequencer workflow has been an endless nightmare and even though I've been messing with it for nearly a year now, I've yet to solve the problems I keep having with it. From what I understand, the sequencer isn't too different than most Korg workstations before it. The main problem is that I will go to record something, play it back, but then the tempo keeps jumping around a bit, sometimes change to different value when I hit stop, then other times it won't even show the same number I'm typing into the PC editor. There's also other times that I'll hit record, try to change the tempo to what I want it to be before hitting play, but it will be locked. I think the issue here is that when I press record, I'm presented with three "recording" options.- Auto- Manual- Record Seriously, what the hell?!?! None of the Roland gear I've owned ever made it this complicated. Generally you just press record, enter a time signature, hit play, then bam, good to go. Also, Korg has a Play options menu that is different from Recording, but again the same three options. Then sometimes the "Record" option in Play isn't even there. The manual doesn't do a really good job of explaining this clearly... For example: "Tempo and tempo mode: Adjust tempo?related settings for the song. For this example, choose the Manu setting so that the songwill follow the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 BUMP Incase anyone can help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gregwar Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 dumb question but are u creating a midi loop or is ableton sending tempo change messages ? the Korg page says the micro station is capable of full level 2 midi playback. I would just export plain midi loops from ableton and play them back on the micro station in logic because of my motu midi interface sometimes there would be weird additional midi tempo and other information (or from broken midi knobs) in my midi files. but in logic I could view it, isolate it and delete it maybe there's a program where u can check and see exactly what is in the midi files like if there's anything other than note on/off commands and such. this kind of thing can be pretty frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted September 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Well, I've been reading through the manuals a bit at work and I think this might have something to do with it... In Korg's MIDI clock settings, there is something called "Auto" mode. In Auto mode, the keyboard will use its own clock source tempo by default, but if it recieves any incoming tempos from external gear, it will switch over to that. Since I have Ableton slaved to the Korg via USB (which acts as both MIDI IN and OUT), it's possible that anytime I hit play on the Korg's sequencer, the tempo signal is being sent to Ableton, but then also bounced back into the Korg causing all the glitches. It's like the groundhog seeing its own shadow and freaking out, haha. Hopefully setting the MIDI clock to internal only will fix this problem. Who knows though... gotta wait till I get home now to experiment with it some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted September 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 dumb question but are u creating a midi loop or is ableton sending tempo change messages ?the Korg page says the micro station is capable of full level 2 midi playback. I would just export plain midi loops from ableton and play them back on the micro stationin logic because of my motu midi interface sometimes there would be weird additional midi tempo and other information (or from broken midi knobs) in my midi files. but in logic I could view it, isolate it and delete it maybe there's a program where u can check and see exactly what is in the midi files like if there's anything other than note on/off commands and such. this kind of thing can be pretty frustrating This is something I tried before, but Ableton doesn't export Type 1 MIDI files, only Type 0. Most of my songs contain about 8 MIDI tracks and there's no option on the Korg to import multiple Type 0 files onto individual tracks. The moment you load one after another, the previous data gets overwritten. But yeah, I've checked Ableton for additional data and all I have is note on/off data. I'm pretty sure it might be the "MIDI loop" thing you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gregwar Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 not so dumb question ! in the mean time try making some glitched out trippy drum loops with like arps & delays lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well, nothing appears to be wrong with the Korg MicroSTATION, the tempo was indeed already set to Internal. Turns out that the problem is within Ableton. "External Sync - Wobbly Tempo. . . ?!?!"https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=115055 There's a handful of threads out there with people trying to sync Ableton to external gearand there appears to be no solution or any real recognition of there being a problem from Ableton. If you look at all the posts from that thread, Ableton just completely ignored all their emails about it. I kind of assumed it wasn't a problem with Ableton because I've had no problems syncing a DAW with hardware before (this was with Cubase and Roland gear) in the past, but eh, looks like I'm switching back to Cubase again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wackawa Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 I was going to say I always had trouble with 'shaky tempo' and ableton. I think it got worse with version 8. I stopped using ableton a while ago. I wish I had an ableton related solution for you. As far as korgs sequencer, I came from using Yamahas and I had no real trouble getting used to the sequencer on the m3. The nice screen helps. . Not to say there aren't odd things. Setting song length and changing time sigs in a song is not intuitive. Those off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 I semi-solved the problem! But it requires some extra work. When I tried slaving the Korg to Ableton, the tempo was smoother, but it would cut off the first note from the song. What I've done now is set the Korg's sequencer to a 4/4 time signature and have it automatically quantize recorded notes by 32. I then added an additional blank 4/4 measure to my songs in Ableton, recorded everything from start to finish into the Korg sequencer, did some menu diving and then deleted the blank measure at the beginning of the song. Took more work than I really wanted it to do, but now when I hit play on the Korg, it plays my songs back instantly from start to finish. There's still a slight jitter in some notes, but eh, for live use, it gives the tracks some edge. It's certainly not as bad as what I was dealing with before. So hopefully I wrote enough about the problem here so that it can lead to future Google searches. It has taken me days to sort out this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 If I try to sync from Live 8 (tempo, start/stop) to my Future Retro Orb the timing jumps all over the place. This surprised the heck with me because the timing changes are incredibly drastic - to the point of making me just laugh. I had assumed it was an issue with my computer setup. In my case I am going out from a USB jack on my case that is wired directly to one of the USB pinouts on my motherboard then into a MOTU Express 128 and then to the Orb. With the Orb remote controlling Live 8 I did not notice this problem. Could this also be a Live 8 issue and not a rig issue? I thought it was weird that the USB connection would be so flaky. The jack is one of a pair wired to different port pinouts on my MB (the other goes to my Virus TI). The TI doesn't play nice with the USB outs on the back panel from my MB and I *think* that is because the back panel jacks are basically like a USB hub circuit attached onto a single port/pinout on the MB. For reference here is my MB Asus P8Z77-v Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 In my case I am going out from a USB jack on my case that is wired directly to one of the USB pinouts on my motherboard then into a MOTU Express 128 and then to the Orb. With the Orb remote controlling Live 8 I did not notice this problem. Could this also be a Live 8 issue and not a rig issue? Pretty sure it's an Ableton issue. I'm not experienced enough to say this is a fact or not, but I think the most external hardware would do is cause some lag in the signal, not an unsteady tempo. In the past, I had a Roland MC-50mkII connected to Cubase via MIDI PC port cable. I don't remember having any tempo issues other than a split-second delay from when I pressed start to trigger both sequencers. I eventually learned out to export MIDI files into the sequencer via the floppy disc, so it wasn't something I messed with long. After that, I got into the Roland grooveboxes and stayed hardware only for nearly a decade, so there's a whole generation of tech issues unfamiliar with when it comes to integrating hardware with software. I did find another thread regarding all the sync problems Ableton has, but I forgot to bookmark it and can't find it again. For the most part, the tempo generated in Ableton is only stable when it's doing it's own thing within the program, but the moment you try to bounce it out to other gear or have it sync to other gear, things get a bit screwy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Pleased to hear its less of a Korg issue... Hope this gets resolved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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