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Wow, this place REALLY doesn't get the traffic it used to anymore...

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  • #31
    As far as disillusionment with electronic music in general....



    I think there are a lot more people today who flirt with keyboard playing and synthesis than there used to be. No doubt this is something that companies like Casio, Roland, and Yamaha love to hear, but it also means there are more people who buy a synth or workstation and never develop the ability to actually play the thing. They're drawn to sequencing, preset combi playing, and phrase sampling as ways to "make music" without learning to play keys. I also see a STRONG aversion to learning anything about theory. Just lay down a thumping (always derivative) rhythm, a simple bass line, and throw heavily effected phrase samples over top of it and you're rolling. And I'm not just talking about hip hop anymore. The disease has spread.



    And it all makes me wonder. How far can you go in this direction before we can all agree you're not really making music?



    Recently, about a month ago, I bought a Little Phatty stage 2 from a guy on Craigslist. He seemed nice enough. Guitar player in a band, in his early 20s. He said he dabbled in keys, and bought the LP from a band mate a while back. So I'm testing it out, tweaking parameters while playing simple leads and bass lines. He kept walking over and looking over my shoulder and asking what I just did to make it sound like that. Nothing I did was anything special. I was just putting the synth through its paces to see if I liked the way it sounded. But over and over again, he'd say that. "What did you do there?" So I'd explain. Finally, he goes, "Man, if I knew I could've made that synth sound like that, I might have kept it."



    I see that a lot when I answer ads for used gear. When I bought my EX5 a while back, for example, it was some rich doctor who had NO IDEA what the EX5 does. Same with the Z1, which was just a couple of months ago. They all had similar comments. "Man, I didn't know it could do THAT."



    My impression was that they bought it because they thought it would be easy, or that they would be willing to put in the time to learn it, be confused, get frustrated at times, but work their way through it. But they're not willing to do that. What they really wanted was a box with a lot of flashing lights and one button marked "GO."
    Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

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    • #32
      Hello everyone in this thread! I feel very good right now.

      Comment


      • #33
        Yeah, bring back ChasIII, that'll attrack the crowds again. :|
        Maybe forgiveness is right where you fell...

        Comment


        • #34
          Mostly, the forum extended downtimes and the failed upgrades are to blame.



          But also, I think most hardware-oriented forums are having a decline, because people are moving to software and forums like KVR and Native Instruments forums are really blooming. So it will be hard to regain the audience that was lost. But whatever, I still like to hang out here
          http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

          Comment


          • #35






            Quote Originally Posted by wwwjd
            View Post

            Buy, I hear ya. I used to compete with the best of them talentwise.... now any idiot with a laptop can "make beatz" and they are generic and suck and the world eats it up. I download free ACID once, dragged some presets onto track, saved and sent to friends.... they LOVED it! Thought it was great. I did nothing than a lucky monkey could have done. ZERO talent utilized. So, I'm dissillusioned as well... for a lil while. But, I'm stocking up on positive attitude, dumping MIDI and getting back to writing. I think it can be fun again.




            Ha!@ Acid! I just started mixing down a goof I did in Acid years ago (like in 2005) just to play with the program. What an AWFUL program I must say, at least in 2012. Granted I'm using an older version of Acid (6?), but it's rough. I'm archiving things off hard drive to DVDs and figured I'd mix what I did and render it before the archive. I hate leaving things unfinished.
            Live Keys Rig:
            Yamaha XS7-Korg M50-61-QSC K12 Monitor (Korg Kronos 73 will replace M50 once programmed)
            Guitar Rig:
            Fender Strats-Gibson Les Paul Classic-Ibanez 3220 TW (Quilt), Mesa Mark IV, RM4-RT2/50, Crate V3112, and a bunch of pedals/modules
            Bass Rig:
            Mike Lull M5-Ashdown ABM 500 RC-Bergantino Cabs, A handful of pedals.

            Comment


            • #36
              What I don't see anymore are the daily posts of, "I have $50, what keyboard should I buy?" that degnigrated into Korg V Roland V Yahmaha ranting once everyone had a good laugh about $50 not being nearly enough and someone else saying we should all be nice to the OP. BTW - I alphabetized the brand list, please don't flame me...



              Those led to lively discussions and lots of posts but rarely any fresh content. It did keep the membership engaged though and led to such great experiements as the day someone - was it you Wizzard? - posted a brilliant piano riff that was later posted as midi and we had 35-50 variations to compare piano patches from various hard/soft synth engines.



              It IS much quieter, very easy to keep up with. Fewer extroverted personalities driving the content. The content is still on topic, I still enjoy keeping up by reading it, and the "old timers" that offered the more mature posts years ago when I joined are still here making sure the plumbing works so I haven't felt the need to hunt down an alternative.

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              • #37
                This place is what we, the members, make of it. I try to make constructive posts and keep quiet if I don't know any answers or have nothing to say.
                Gribs

                ...Music can be used to stimulate mass emotion, while mathematics cannot; and musical incapacity is recognized (no doubt rightly) as mildly discreditable, whereas most people are so frightened of the name of mathematics that they are ready, quite unaffectedly, to exaggerate their own mathematical stupidity.

                G.H. Hardy in A Mathematician's Apology (London 1941).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Maybe someone should invite ADSR back?
                  Originally Posted by Metrosonus


                  working in a library I wish women would just come right out and say "where do you keep your soft core / torture porn at?"









                  Originally Posted by swardle


                  Well, I've never seen such filth in my entire life. Disgustation!!!



                  That's called pain. Get used to it.

                  Comment


                  • #39






                    Quote Originally Posted by zoink
                    View Post

                    I think there are a lot more people today who flirt with keyboard playing and synthesis than there used to be. No doubt this is something that companies like Casio, Roland, and Yamaha love to hear,




                    Not really, because the market has moved so much to software. Synthesizers are more prevalent in music than ever -- how many guitar oriented songs are in the charts vs. synth ones? But it's all DAW related stuff.



                    I think ChristianRock is right that this is perceived more of as a player-oriented hardware forum. The more traditional keyboard hardware that does comes out (your Kronos and Jupiter 80s) and some of the analogs (Minibrute etc.) do tend to get threads here. But very little is said on VST stuff, I have to lurk in KVR to get the latest and greatest news on that. Not much on modular either, you have to go to Muffwiggler for that. Modular and VSTs have been most of my focus of late.








                    I also see a STRONG aversion to learning anything about theory. Just lay down a thumping (always derivative) rhythm, a simple bass line, and throw heavily effected phrase samples over top of it and you're rolling. And I'm not just talking about hip hop anymore. The disease has spread.



                    That is one of my stronger complaints about today's pop market, too many songs are underdeveloped from a melodic / songwriting perspective. Four chords at best in a constant loop (Verse-chorus? Middle 8? Bridges? No one cares anymore), 4 on the floor rhythm, add singer with generic lyrics, done. But, I like my garage rocks and punk rocks and bar band rock that can often do a lot of 4 chord repeating too, so what do I know?
                    What I make with way too many blinky light modular items, plugins, and an Alesis Andromeda.
                    Forbidden Star: home studio / melodic ambient / New Age / the deep zone
                    Boney Fiend: the band, man / punk / garage / beer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I just don't think that it's true that the more interesting people who used to frequent this place, and now have left, did so because they are now into software. I also have to laugh at this notion that the quality of electronic music is suffering. I am amazed almost every single day by the quality of stuff that I find on soundcloud....what seems to be missing here (for the most part) anymore is an appreciation for non melodic/harmonic music. It's really a very conservative forum now. that's not necessarily a bad thing, if y'all want it.

                      Comment


                      • #41






                        Quote Originally Posted by droolmaster0
                        View Post

                        I just don't think that it's true that the more interesting people who used to frequent this place, and now have left, did so because they are now into software.




                        Yeah, I don't buy it either. It was obvious to anyone who was here that the drop in traffic to this forum came during the downtime associated with the 'upgrade.' It wasn't that half of the members adopted software and left.



                        That said, I think the quality of the threads and posts here is better than it used to be. It's just unfortunate that the volume of posts took such a hit.













                        Quote Originally Posted by droolmaster0
                        View Post

                        I also have to laugh at this notion that the quality of electronic music is suffering. I am amazed almost every single day by the quality of stuff that I find on soundcloud.






                        What I'm seeing are more ways to make bad electronic music, and to do it easily.



                        There's still plenty of good electronic music being made -- perhaps more than ever.



                        But I also see a lot of push button solutions to making electronic music, for club kids to play with in their bedrooms. People can now get collections of pre-made drum rhythms, sampled phrases of bass lines, pads, and leads, and drop them into a mix and call it an original composition. Blame the MPC and Fruity Loops.



                        It used to take ingenuity to make electronic music that sounded good. The irony is that now you CAN make electronic music that sounds "good" to a lot of people with pre-made "pour and stir" type software.



                        It'll just sound tired and derivative -- not that most listeners will care.
                        Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

                        Comment


                        • #42






                          Quote Originally Posted by zoink
                          View Post

                          What I'm seeing are more ways to make bad electronic music, and to do it easily.



                          There's still plenty of good electronic music being made -- perhaps more than ever.



                          But I also see a lot of push button solutions to making electronic music, for club kids to play with in their bedrooms. People can now get collections of pre-made drum rhythms, sampled phrases of bass lines, pads, and leads, and drop them into a mix and call it an original composition. Blame the MPC and Fruity Loops.



                          It used to take ingenuity to make electronic music that sounded good. The irony is that now you CAN make electronic music that sounds "good" to a lot of people with pre-made "pour and stir" type software.



                          It'll just sound tired and derivative -- not that most listeners will care.




                          Don't blame the people making the "bad" music, blame the consumers. If there weren't a demand for it, they wouldn't be making it. Personally, when I write music, I normally don't do it with a "target audience" in mind - I usually just write what *I* want, and if other people like it, great! If the don't, screw 'em.
                          A dead astronaut in space...

                          Comment


                          • #43






                            Quote Originally Posted by zoink
                            View Post



                            What I'm seeing are more ways to make bad electronic music, and to do it easily.



                            There's still plenty of good electronic music being made -- perhaps more than ever.



                            But I also see a lot of push button solutions to making electronic music, for club kids to play with in their bedrooms. People can now get collections of pre-made drum rhythms, sampled phrases of bass lines, pads, and leads, and drop them into a mix and call it an original composition. Blame the MPC and Fruity Loops.



                            It used to take ingenuity to make electronic music that sounded good. The irony is that now you CAN make electronic music that sounds "good" to a lot of people with pre-made "pour and stir" type software.



                            It'll just sound tired and derivative -- not that most listeners will care.




                            There has always been bad music. The great thing about the democratization that technology has brought is that people with talent, who formerly might not have had a chance to make their music public, can now do so. I'm not talking about 'beats'. I'm talking about interesting timbral based music - some made with modular synths, some made with softsynths, and some made with a variety of other things. It is so easy to dismiss it all, and it's one reason why I rarely frequent this forum anymore. There are few people here who are into this stuff. It's too bad. There used to be more of us. Your view is the prevalent view here.

                            Comment


                            • #44






                              Quote Originally Posted by selfinflikted
                              View Post

                              Don't blame the people making the "bad" music, blame the consumers. If there weren't a demand for it, they wouldn't be making it. Personally, when I write music, I normally don't do it with a "target audience" in mind - I usually just write what *I* want, and if other people like it, great! If the don't, screw 'em.




                              Well, the people making bad electronic music have themselves fueled a demand for easier ways to create it. And both software and hardware producers have undertaken to meet that demand.



                              As far as I can tell, nobody listens to the crap that 19 year olds make in their bedrooms with Fruity Loops. But the internet is still flooded with it.



                              So I too tend to blame the demand side of the equation. And we're smack dab in the middle of a "You TOO can be an electronica artist" consumer revolution. But again, the so-called 'artist' is the consumer in this story.
                              Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

                              Comment


                              • #45






                                Quote Originally Posted by selfinflikted
                                View Post

                                Don't blame the people making the "bad" music, blame the consumers. If there weren't a demand for it, they wouldn't be making it.




                                I maintain that they WOULD be making it even without listeners -- as evidenced by the fact that they are.
                                Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

                                Comment



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