Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Is there anyone here interesting in less traditional gear? Ciat lonbarde, blippoo, gotharman, even Serge, etc, in the context of non harmonic, 'experimental' music? Discussions on more philosophical subjects like what music really is, and in what general context the question can even be interpreted? There used to be a number of people here who liked discussing such issues. I even have a strong recollection (back when he considered me to be other than subhuman) of Gus passionately defending John Cage here. Even trolls like ADSR could inspire heated arguments that did center around some important issues. Does any of that still exist here, or is it simply all 'community' and nothing of topical substance? In spite of myself, I have an affection for this place, but I realize that mods and former mods would rather I just leave. I don't post here now (except off topic) because there is generally nothing at all that is interesting to me. But still I persist. Perhaps that is just indicative of my psychosis. I don't even start threads anymore (except occasional spam threads which tend to be ignored anyway) because my perception is that no one is interested here in anything but the most popular gear, and traditional electronic music. (well, I know at least one person who has some interest, but that's not enough, really). I don't even know why I"m posting this. I suppose I don't even care much now whether I"m banned again, though I'm not trying to be, and I don't think that this thread is close to making that threshold anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I feel you brother. You do realize they banned Diametro today for making the same point, albeit less diplomatically than you. The passive-aggressive thought they won years ago, stomping out all of us little fire-starters. You can tell they certainly think they own the place now. It stinks like a retirement home in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ghostpaw Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 There used to be a number of people here who liked discussing such issues. I even have a strong recollection (back when he considered me to be other than subhuman) of Gus passionately defending John Cage here. I'm with Gus on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ghostpaw Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I feel you brother. You do realize they banned Diametro today for making the same point, albeit less diplomatically than you. It wasn't the message, it was the delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 YesYes. Very much so. Chance music, Tape music, etc. fascinate me lately.Yes.I'm with Gus on that one. Then lets try to make this place more interesting again. I totally disagree with the notion that because things are 'easier' for the mods, that this forum is the better for it. I also realize in parallel with that that I have been a difficult person to live with. These are not contradictory notions. I do have lots of experience with some of the gear that I've mentioned, and I also make music that many here would put quote around ('music'). I personally believe that issues like 'what is music, really' is extremely important, just as exploring preconceptions are essential in exploring the world/politics, etc, in this 21st century (god, did I actually say that. I must be drunk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Believe it or not, I'm happy to see this thread. C'mon, folks! Don't leave Drool hangin', I know there some of you out there that like this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I feel you brother. You do realize they banned Diametro today for making the same point, albeit less diplomatically than you.The passive-aggressive thought they won years ago, stomping out all of us little fire-starters. You can tell they certainly think they own the place now. It stinks like a retirement home in here. hah. I miss you! This is with full recognition that we had horribly heated political exchanges. But they were so much more vital than what's here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Believe it or not, I'm happy to see this thread. C'mon, folks! Don't leave Drool hangin', I know there some of you out there that like this stuff. And Mr. Puppy. We have had such acrimonious history. But what tends to win out in my conflicted, aging, though still feisty brain, is that you allowed me back in here when i was ostensibly banned for life. Let me say this gratuitously. I think that it just totally sucked that Diametro called purity control a "whore". But ultimately, my belief is that one should always look for an excuse to NOT ban someone. I understand why you did it. But if she would allow him back in, I'd say, be generous. And I emphasize - Diametro is someone that overwhelmingly I have not gotten along with. So, I say this respectfrully and I hope it's taken that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Is there anyone here interesting in less traditional gear?Ciat lonbarde, blippoo, gotharman, even Serge, etc, in the context of non harmonic, 'experimental' music? Sure. donaldcrunk and me at least. I guess Allerian still pokes his head in here once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Duly noted. Thank you for your frankness. But I want to hear more about weird sounds. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Duly noted. Thank you for your frankness.But I want to hear more about weird sounds. Carry on! This was more of a general, drunken, curmudgeonly, frustration post. A slightly more specific thread followed shortly thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 My heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am really interested in the less traditional stuff. I have a sizable Eurorack system going and am as much or more into the sound I make than something structured. I am told by local modular folks that one has to experience patching a Serge to really grok it. Have you guys seen the documentary What the Future Sounded Like from AU about EMS? I thought it was excellent. It contains much interview material of the original guys from EMS (Peter Zinovieff, Tristram Cary, David Cockerell). You can find it on YouTube. WARNING it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK. There is a discussion in the documentary about groups like Hawkwind imagining using early synthesizers to take people on trips without using drugs and video clips from their early live shows which contain nudity. I am also a very difficult person. I just happen to be pretty nice here. My wife is a saint, which is one of many reasons why I am totally devoted to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I feel you brother. You do realize they banned Diametro today for making the same point, albeit less diplomatically than you. I don't want to split hairs, but we BOTH know that's not why he was banned. As far as I can tell, making a constructive comment about how to improve this forum doesn't get you banned. Calling the entire forum a bunch of twats and then calling Purity Control a whore does (and should). And for the life of me, I can't see why this isn't obvious. I personally am very interested in talking about experimental music, nontraditional instruments, etc. It turns out I've spent a number of years doing it. But let's face it. Some people just don't play well with others. They don't even care enough about others' sensibilities to not call them 'twats.' It makes me think that some people turn to internet forums because they have some kind of social difficulty. Hell, it may also be why some people turn to music in the first place. There's certainly no shortage of social malcontents in the world. But I'm frankly tired of hearing the claim that (1) this forum is inhabited by dull people who don't want to talk about anything interesting, and (2) the moderators are free speech stifling Nazis. I've been here. I've seen. It's just not true. And I don't envy the moderators their job, either. It's like they've signed on to babysit problem children for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 C'mon, folks! Don't leave Drool hangin'Mental image FAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm not a modular/weird sound guy in my noobiness, but I do appreciate the sounds and the talent it takes to create interesting textures. I'm sure it is in my future, so I always read these threads even if I don't have anything to ask Hopefully my post will be seen as an encouragement for modular and experimental conversations and not me yet again talking about something I know nothing about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 Brief comment on Serge stuff...like any of the modular systems, it has its 'fan boys'. There are also its detractors, to whom everything Serge is overpriced and overrated. I like using it because I really like the work flow. The size is just right, the build quality is very good, and I much, much prefer patching with banana jacks. Perhaps it's silly, but I really prefer them greatly to the eurorack patchable cables, and they are much cheaper also. I think that the perception of it being overpriced comes from 2 main areas (though others will disagree, of course) - one is that because you can't buy individual modules like you can with most other systems, once you have a panel or 2, it starts getting harder and harder to avoid redundancy. I have more than I need (8 panels) but there is nothing that I can see parting with, because there is always some module or 2 within a panel that I like to use. The other controversial price point is the power supplies. I don't know enough technically to really know the answer, but the serge power supplies are apparently off the shelf ones that can be gotten for much cheaper - but Rex claims that he does all of this calibration on them, and sells them for rather hefty prices. Some people say that this calibration stuff is nonsense. I am really interested in the less traditional stuff. I have a sizable Eurorack system going and am as much or more into the sound I make than something structured.I am told by local modular folks that one has to experience patching a Serge to really grok it. Have you guys seen the documentary What the Future Sounded Like from AU about EMS? I thought it was excellent. It contains much interview material of the original guys from EMS (Peter Zinovieff, Tristram Cary, David Cockerell). You can find it on YouTube. WARNING it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK. There is a discussion in the documentary about groups like Hawkwind imagining using early synthesizers to take people on trips without using drugs and video clips from their early live shows which contain nudity.I am also a very difficult person. I just happen to be pretty nice here. My wife is a saint, which is one of many reasons why I am totally devoted to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't want to split hairs, but we BOTH know that's not why he was banned. As far as I can tell, making a constructive comment about how to improve this forum doesn't get you banned. Calling the entire forum a bunch of twats and then calling Purity Control a whore does (and should). And for the life of me, I can't see why this isn't obvious.I personally am very interested in talking about experimental music, nontraditional instruments, etc. It turns out I've spent a number of years doing it.But let's face it. Some people just don't play well with others. They don't even care enough about others' sensibilities to not call them 'twats.'It makes me think that some people turn to internet forums because they have some kind of social difficulty. Hell, it may also be why some people turn to music in the first place. There's certainly no shortage of social malcontents in the world.But I'm frankly tired of hearing the claim that (1) this forum is inhabited by dull people who don't want to talk about anything interesting, and (2) the moderators are free speech stifling Nazis. I've been here. I've seen. It's just not true.And I don't envy the moderators their job, either. It's like they've signed on to babysit problem children for free. Well, I've been through this whole argument and don't wish to open up this proverbial 'can of worms', but....logically, the fact that a mod's job may be thankless in many ways, and is done for free, doesn't imply that any decision that is made is right and fair. It just doesn't follow. I also had issues (as did others) with some heavy handed moderation back a few years ago. Others thought that it was just fine, but it is something that is open to debate, and, factually, some people left the forum because of it. I also think that one should differentiate among people who 'don't play well with others'. After a point, when you get rid of all of them, you get a homogenous, unlively forum, and I do think that this forum has kind of become that. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm not a modular/weird sound guy in my noobiness, but I do appreciate the sounds and the talent it takes to create interesting textures. I'm sure it is in my future, so I always read these threads even if I don't have anything to ask Hopefully my post will be seen as an encouragement for modular and experimental conversations and not me yet again talking about something I know nothing about You've already got the correct facial expression, so all that's left is to spend the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I suppose that's what's keeping me... I'd rather keep the family and the house for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 [video=youtube;GQJ6xvclslg] You don't need new stuff, you just have to think in ways you normally wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I suppose that's what's keeping me... I'd rather keep the family and the house for now... Metro makes a good point. Your guitar and pedals are a modular synth rig. The guitar is your oscillator, and the pedals, hands, etc. supply the other essential components of a synth (amplifier, envelopes, filters, etc.). You could start experimenting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 One thing that I think makes for truly novel experimental music is that it's not self-consciously experimental. In other words, it's not necessarily made with the guided intention of being not-this or not-that. It just springs from independent creativity, and does not attempt to fit in with genre expectations. It can be tonal, it can conform to western scaling, but that still doesn't mean it's trying to 'fit in'. Daniel Johnson is an example that comes to mind. Some love him, some hate him, but there's something unique and experimental about his work, as far as where his music comes from. [video=youtube;ICLXH8wdXhk] [video=youtube;Ma7lyfYzIw8] This one confronts the whole issue of categorization by genre: [video=youtube;buOOLFyAH54] I just discovered that the full length film is posted here in Vimeo: [video=vimeo;25252350] And two other videos I came across recently that I like for different reasons: [video=youtube;UGdOjsQcz8g] Some nice textures here: [video=youtube;qzym_9VRPcs] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 If you have a sincere interest in experimental music on modular synth, "Silver Apples Of the Moon" by Morton Subotnick is required listening. I believe this is just an excerpt of the original 1967 version, which was done on a Buchla modular: There are Youtube videos of Subotnick's modernized version, which he plays on a modern (hybrid analog-digital) Buchla modular and Ableton Live. He's scheduled to play at Moogfest 2012, so maybe he has some Moog gear in his rig tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members plaid_emu Posted October 9, 2012 Members Share Posted October 9, 2012 I really get off messing with preset randomizers. Especially ones with some amount of controls. They're also a very useful tool for learning how to make unique sounds. Mash it up and then dissect it. My favorite implementations are in Reaktor, Absynth 5, and the Virus TI. Although the Virus TI does it in a unique way, not so much with a true randomizer but with "parameter lock". You can freeze up any parameters you want in any patch, then surf through the presets where all those other parameters aren't locked. Almost more like selectively mutating a patch. Some interesting, and occasionally stunning results are to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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