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Any favorite B3 settings for Reggae?


Cogan

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Are there any drawbar, vibrato, percussion, key click (B4), spin, settings that are considered standards for Reggae (think classic Bob Marley tones)? Anyone have any favorites they like to use?

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I play Reggae exclusively and the problem is with any old Jamaican recordings is there is not a lot of information out there on it. It is hard to find the settings because they do not exist on the net. Most of the information is passed on to other players because that style of playing is very hard to get used to. Reggae is not a big music in the US. A lot of people do not play it correctly also which leads to more confusion. A lot of the hippy Jam/Reggae bands have it wrong too. Most of the guys now in Jamaica are not using Hammonds anymore. The guy in Third World is new member and he was using a Triton last time I saw him. I will be out in Vegas in another month with the top band in the area and I will ask the keyboardist out there. I know a guy locally that toured with Sugar Minot and he could not remember his drawbar settings. Wire Lindo with the Wailers used a bubble setting that is hard to reproduce. The Leslie is NOT always on in Reggae and NO percussion. Jazz settings are not desireable. The manual drawbar settings are different. A bubble sound is clean, no percussion, Chorus 3, and has to be heard. Contact me privately and I will give you the setting I use.

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Reggae and ska organ is an entire idiom unto itself. I have studied and played this genre extensively and it is one of my favorite types of music to listen to and play. The Bob Marley songs are major milestones for reggae keyboards.

 

The majority of what you are hearing is a Hammond B3 and Leslie with various drawbar settings. Usually it is a hollow whistle tone on the lower manual like 0084000006 doing "ghost notes" on the down beat and a strong fundamental organ sound like 888000000 on the upbeat played on the upper manual of the organ. If you don't have a real Hammond with two manuals, you can set up a keyboard split. A regular flute sound also works nice for reggae chopping...think about the sound for "Waiting in Vain" which is a Hammond, but very flutelike - I'm guessing the drawbar setting would translate to 008400004, but also sounds very nice with a straight flute sound.

 

Generally speaking, several sounds that will work well in reggae (in addition to other styles of music):

 

- 888000000

- 888000008

- 888800000

- 800000008

- 808000008

- 058223678

 

There is a wide variety of sounds that work for the reggae sound, though the majority of the sound actually comes from the rhythmic style as opposed to the drawbar setting or other sound choice.

 

One way I remember practicing this was to help get over the tendency to play on the downbeats. I would "fake" the downbeats by hitting the top of the keyboard with one hand and then play the upbeats on the keyboard with the other hand. Once you get this rhythm mastered, you can start playing around with some "ghost notes" in the left hand while chopping upbeats with the right hand. Basically with the "faking" part you are playing in the left hand and hitting more solidly on the right hand:

 

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

L R L R L R L R

 

Bob Marley had a second keyboard playing Hohner clavinet with wah and also an analog synth sweep on some songs.

 

Hope this helps. You may already know a lot of this, but like Outkaster mentioned, the reggae keyboard idiom does not get a whole lot of press.

 

Regards,

Eric

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Originally posted by eric

Reggae and ska organ is an entire idiom unto itself. I have studied and played this genre extensively and it is one of my favorite types of music to listen to and play. The Bob Marley songs are major milestones for reggae keyboards.


The majority of what you are hearing is a Hammond B3 and Leslie with various drawbar settings. Usually it is a hollow whistle tone on the lower manual like 0084000006 doing "ghost notes" on the down beat and a strong fundamental organ sound like 888000000 on the upbeat played on the upper manual of the organ. If you don't have a real Hammond with two manuals, you can set up a keyboard split. A regular flute sound also works nice for reggae chopping...think about the sound for "Waiting in Vain" which is a Hammond, but very flutelike - I'm guessing the drawbar setting would translate to 008400004, but also sounds very nice with a straight flute sound.


Generally speaking, several sounds that will work well in reggae (in addition to other styles of music):


- 888000000

- 888000008

- 888800000

- 800000008

- 808000008

- 058223678


There is a wide variety of sounds that work for the reggae sound, though the majority of the sound actually comes from the rhythmic style as opposed to the drawbar setting or other sound choice.


One way I remember practicing this was to help get over the tendency to play on the downbeats. I would "fake" the downbeats by hitting the top of the keyboard with one hand and then play the upbeats on the keyboard with the other hand. Once you get this rhythm mastered, you can start playing around with some "ghost notes" in the left hand while chopping upbeats with the right hand. Basically with the "faking" part you are playing in the left hand and hitting more solidly on the right hand:


1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

L R L R L R L R


Bob Marley had a second keyboard playing Hohner clavinet with wah and also an analog synth sweep on some songs.


Hope this helps. You may already know a lot of this, but like Outkaster mentioned, the reggae keyboard idiom does not get a whole lot of press.


Regards,

Eric

 

 

Actually bubbling is something I see people do wrong. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying I think you have it backwards, you should not play ghost notes on left hand while bubbling. It has to be right there and solid. The right hand does the coloring. It makes the music sound faster than it is actually going. It takes chops and some patience. Trust me because I have played or backed up some national acts. Most bands have one keyboard player, unless it is a huge act like Yellowman, Ziggy Marley, or Beres Hammond. IF there is one guy he will play rhythm piano right-handed and bubble with the left. With Marley, Lindo did it by holding octaves. Him and Tyrone Downie have long fingers and are monster organ players. They split parts when they played together. Most of the time it was a Clavinet and Hammond C-3 and you would have to be economical to play the right parts or the music would sound empty. Most of the time is was one keybaord player till Bob got more national exposure and then you saw some early synths and Rhodes there for more color.

 

I learned for some really good people but you have to like Reggae, in fact love it to play it well and it takes a lot of years to get good it. Unlike other music it is very cultural and Jamaican's guard it fiercely. They will let you know if you can play or not and have no quams about telling you. You have to know Marley, Dancehall, Studio One Rhythms, Ska and Rock Steady. You have to have chops, be able to play horn lines, clav lines, duplicate bass lines, play in between bass lines, and play electric piano parts. Like Jazz standards they are expected to be none.

 

Sorry to ramble on and I know it is not part of the orginal question but it is important to get perspective on the music and not treat it like just any rock or pop music.

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Great topic and I enjoy reading what you are saying, Outkaster. What I'm trying to describe on the "ghost notes" is kind of hard to put into words and is probably more applicable to when you are bubbling with both hands, rather than doing something contrapuntal like a melody in the right hand whilst keeping the bubble going in the left hand. "Ghost note" is probably the wrong term. I am talking about strict rhythm playing and yes you are right, it needs to be right there and be strong. However, there is opportunity to slap the left hand in time on a variety of notes, whether it be the same chord as the right hand is playing, or a cluster of notes. When you have a whistle tone on the Hammond, it sounds cool to play percussively and not necessarily the exact chord. Some players treat it like playing congas. I may be going deeper here, but I think of the left hand as auxilary percussion that slaps in time, but moves up and down on the keyboard, stabbing clusters to create some extra character.

 

You have some cool ties to the music. I have been lucky enough to open for the Wailers several times and also Eeek a Mouse. There was a killer regional reggae band in the mid-late 80's called The Good Guys and I originally learned the art of bubbling from their lead singer/key player. The band I was in shared the stage with The Good Guys countless times and I sat in with them as well. I have also played on the same stage with a number of regional & national ska bands like The Toaster, The Bosstones, Bim Skala Bim, The Pie Tasters and others.

 

Regards,

Eric

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Originally posted by eric

Great topic and I enjoy reading what you are saying, Outkaster. What I'm trying to describe on the "ghost notes" is kind of hard to put into words and is probably more applicable to when you are bubbling with both hands, rather than doing something contrapuntal like a melody in the right hand whilst keeping the bubble going in the left hand. "Ghost note" is probably the wrong term. I am talking about strict rhythm playing and yes you are right, it needs to be right there and be strong. However, there is opportunity to slap the left hand in time on a variety of notes, whether it be the same chord as the right hand is playing, or a cluster of notes. When you have a whistle tone on the Hammond, it sounds cool to play percussively and not necessarily the exact chord. Some players treat it like playing congas. I may be going deeper here, but I think of the left hand as auxilary percussion that slaps in time, but moves up and down on the keyboard, stabbing clusters to create some extra character.


You have some cool ties to the music. I have been lucky enough to open for the Wailers several times and also Eeek a Mouse. There was a killer regional reggae band in the mid-late 80's called The Good Guys and I originally learned the art of bubbling from their lead singer/key player. The band I was in shared the stage with The Good Guys countless times and I sat in with them as well. I have also played on the same stage with a number of regional & national ska bands like The Toaster, The Bosstones, Bim Skala Bim, The Pie Tasters and others.


Regards,

Eric

 

 

That's cool. If you have another keyboard player it makes it easier to play, alot easier. Most ska bands are not really Ska and I really don't get into that {censored} anyway. It is the easiest of the music compared to roots and culture stuff which is really the style we are talking about. I was luck enough to either open for or back up the following. Third World, Beres Hammond, Yellowman, Wailing Souls, Lady Saw, Beenie Man, Sanzchez, Toots and the Maytals, Michael Rose (Black Urhu), Leory Gibbons, The Roots (not reggae) and a few others I cannot remember. I have been lucky and blessed to play this much music.

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first of all, i had no idea we had some hard core reggae peeps here. i am happy and pleased. i am not a hardcore reggae peep, but i do care very very much about this music.

 

let me preface this by saying that i'm into all three tempos of jamaican music: ska, reggae, and dub. (yeah i know rocksteady is in there somewhere but come on ... let's keep it to three.)

 

i've noticed that people are into 2 of the three, but never all three. if someone can explain this to me i would appreciate it.

 

 

Originally posted by Outkaster

A lot of the hippy Jam/Reggae bands have it wrong too.

 

 

no way ... hippies do it best! wether it be improvisational jazz, electronic music, bluegrass, or reggae.

 

 

Originally posted by Outkaster

Most ska bands are not really Ska and I really don't get into that {censored} anyway. It is the easiest of the music compared to roots and culture stuff which is really the style we are talking about.

 

 

first line: correct!

 

second line: i strongly disagree!

 

traditional ska ain't easy. to play trad ska you must first be into jazz, and then move into trad ska.

 

saying proper ska is easy is like saying bebop is simple. whatever.

 

uh third wave ska is easy. but it's not ska.

 

i would REALLY like to have the world's first trad ska organ trio (organ, guitar, drums) but every time i try to move in this direction, whatever jazz wanker i'm playing with on guitar either doesn't feel it or doesn't like the idea or the drummer can't handle it or doesn't like it and can't handle it and it's totally {censored}ing frustrating.

 

so i gave up on the trad ska organ trio. could i comprimise by playing all three tempos? yes. i can. will anyone around here go with me on it? no. of course not.

 

"so suit, why don't you just play organ in a normal reggae band?" well i have this little problem of if i'm not playing bass with my left hand i freak out. i have some recordings of me "bubbling" on some two-tone stuff ... i can post it if you guys REALLY want to hear it, but it's not something i'd brag about. it wasn't very good two-tone music.

 

so ... no ... i don't play traditional jamaican techniques here on the hammond ... i have to do my own thing. if that means holding down the dub bass with my left hand/pedal while doing RH upbeats or making spacey dub textures with my looping rig then so be it.

 

here is an example of completely un-authentic dub reggae organ playing: http://suitandtieguy.com/sounds/01_11_2004_seminary/stgb_01_11_2004_seminary_dub_force_rising.mp3

 

btw, anyone as happy as i was to see Ernest Ranglin and Monty Alexander on the cover of Downbeat a few months ago?

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Here is the problem. I hate to say it but the jam/hippy bands have no idea Reggae went on after Bob died. They might like Steel Pulse,Aswad or even Gregory Issacs. I could mention artists like Luciano, Dennis Brown, Beres Hammond, Chevelle Franklin, Vegas, Morgan Hertiage and countless others and they always have NO idea who I am talking about. There is a big, I mean huge division in these type of Reggae bands. I have seen Johns Brown Body a "white" Reggae band play here in NYS, they are national also. I was with Jamaican musicians this one time and they said they "execute the music wrong". I also saw that same band open for Third World in 2002 in front of a West Indian/Black crowd at a city festival. All the dead/fish/hippy dredlocks thought it was the {censored}. Most of the West Indian crowd did not care. They are not going to because it is thier cultural music. Unless it is a big mixed band like UB40 you do not get the respect from the crowd. Sorry it is too bad but that is how it is. Believe me they are a hard crowd to play to. I just did a Marley tribute on Feb 5th. I played about 40 songs, some backing up other guest rock musicians and some with my own band. These guy's butchered the songs and it was hard to play with them. Almost embarrassing but I was getting paid and doing a favor because these are good guys. They needed a house keybaordist and I was playing anyway so I said yes. My band got up there and did a 23 minute set and blew everyone out of the water. I hate to brag but we practiced it, have people that know the music in the band, and execute it traditionally.

 

 

The biggest problem is these musicians do not know all the styles. Piano playing in Ska is all rhythm and personally I do not think it is all that hard. Reggae is after Rock Steady and something that came later on. Dub is more engineer driven and you have to have someone that understands it running the board. Playing dub has to be instinctual and sorry for a lot of people it is not. Drums and Bass are the key instruments in Reggae, not guitars (thank {censored}in god), and not horns. Sorry to rant on but this is something I know about and have been playing for years. I would be glad to help anyone interested in learning it.

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but every time i try to move in this direction, whatever jazz wanker i'm playing with on guitar either doesn't feel it or doesn't like the idea or the drummer can't handle it or doesn't like it and can't handle it and it's totally fucking frustrating.

 

:D

 

I have the same problem with my funk band every time we don't play a two chord jam :) WHOA! Dm9!

 

but, back on topic:

 

I use 888875568, third percussion for 'I shot the sheriff'

 

interesting conversation...keep it coming

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Originally posted by Roald



:D

I have the same problem with my funk band every time we don't play a two chord jam
:)
WHOA! Dm9!


but, back on topic:


I use 888875568, third percussion for 'I shot the sheriff'


interesting conversation...keep it coming

 

Yeah like most music there are just certain things you have to do. Drums and bass just have to be right. R and B and Funk players are another one that have a hard time being diciplined enough. The snare always leads of a Reggae tune especially Marley. The drum fills take you to different parts of the song. From verse to chorus and so on. By the way this is a left hand bubble setting I use.

 

8411012001

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Thanks for allthe input guys; very interesting tangent developing here too.

 

I know I'm going to sound like an idiot here, and I hope I don't offend, but could someone explain "bubbling" to me? I'm a guitarist with some piano experience and I'm just getting into organ playing. I don't expect to ever be good enough to do any real Reggae right, but there are elements to the organ playing that I find simply mesmorizing. I want to try to learn as much Reggae and gospel technique as I can to mix in with my songs. There's just such a unique groove and feel to the sound, I HAVE to learn it.

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Originally posted by Cogan

Thanks for allthe input guys; very interesting tangent developing here too.


I know I'm going to sound like an idiot here, and I hope I don't offend, but could someone explain "bubbling" to me? I'm a guitarist with some piano experience and I'm just getting into organ playing. I don't expect to ever be good enough to do any real Reggae right, but there are elements to the organ playing that I find simply mesmorizing. I want to try to learn as much Reggae and gospel technique as I can to mix in with my songs. There's just such a unique groove and feel to the sound, I HAVE to learn it.

 

 

No it is a good question. Basically is the pulse pumping in the background of most roots and culture music. It is very hard to describe but easier to show because you can learn it wrong. Like I said before is makes the music sound like it is going faster than it iis. That is the technique Eric and I were talking about. Learn it on any old Wailers, Marley, Toots or Steel Pulse records. It is the single hardest keyboard riff in Reggae to learn. It is in between the piano part. I wish I could describe it but you have to go get some recordings and just listen to it. If you can get a song you like I can tell you a little more once you listen to it. Chances are I may know it.

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Thanks much Outkaster!

 

I'll dig around and try to come up with some tunes. I'm fairly sure I know the sound you're talking about, and it is exactly what I'm after. I'm currently in Boulder, Colorado and a friend of mine said she is working with Al Laughlin, the old keyboardist for the Samples. I may have to try and get a couple of lessons out of him! This may be sacrelige to the Roots devotees here (I hope not), but would the organ work on the Samples' "When it's Raining" be a fair example of bubbling?

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001HZ6/qid=1113332268/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/104-9005370-5187141

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Actually no ok but try to go for the root music and where it started. It is like listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn to understand blues see what I mean? Go to internet and pick up Talkin Blues by the Wailers or Burning. You can get those albums on E-bay and Half.com. Here are better examples of bubbling. Let me know how you make out.

 

"Put it On" from the Wailers

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002Y9T6U/qid=1113335346/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-0713696-7149723

 

A Marley Song "Crazy Baldheads":

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007E7H5/qid=1113335492/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/102-0713696-7149723?v=glance&s=music

 

"Roller Skates" by Steel Pulse

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002HBN/qid=1113335624/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-0713696-7149723

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Originally posted by Outkaster

Unless it is a big mixed band like UB40 you do not get the respect from the crowd. Sorry it is too bad but that is how it is.

 

 

so are you trying to say that all white reggae is hippie {censored}?

 

it's not. i'm not a hippie, but i am white. my reggae doesn't suck. therefore, there is some white reggae which is neither bad nor made by hippies.

 

in fact, the only people i see who give a {censored} about the torch of traditional ska and rocksteady are white people ... and it's not a colour thing. i see plenty of blacks at good white ska gigs. maybe new york is different but chicago and st louis don't care.

 

Playing dub has to be instinctual and sorry for a lot of people it is not.

 

 

true dat.

 

with dub it can help to come from an ambient background or (believe it or not) slowcore death metal.

 

i have heard some _really_ good dub made by death metal guys. Solaris i believe was the name of the project.

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"so are you trying to say that all white reggae is hippie {censored}?

 

it's not. i'm not a hippie, but i am white. my reggae doesn't suck. therefore, there is some white reggae which is neither bad nor made by hippies."

 

I remember a great band of suburban white boys who played around Kansas City and Lawrence, KS during my college years- Pat's Blue Riddim Band. They were a big hit at the Jamacian Sunsplash festival one year. Here is an article from the local freebie alternative press ("The Pitch") from 2002 that I found:

 

Originally published by The Pitch Aug 29, 2002

C2002 New Times, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

Riddim Nation

Blue Riddim gets back into the groove.

By Mike Warren

 

 

Twenty-three years ago, Bob Marley played Hoch Auditorium at the

University of Kansas. Local fans knew and loved Marley's music, but

their regular exposure to roots-reggae came from the opening act, Pat's

Blue Riddim Band, and that group's frequent visits to KC's Parody Hall

and Lawrence's Off the Wall Hall. Kansas City's PBR, as it was, and

frequently still is, affectionately known, held its own with the king of

reggae that night.

"We were the first guys down the pike -- we had that opportunity,"

longtime Blue Riddim drummer Steve "Duck" McLane says, warm memories

audible in his voice. "What was really cool [in our career] was having a

chance to open for Bob Marley, Sly and Robbie, and Black Uhuru. Every

night we'd get clobbered by them, but we'd climb up another notch. It

was a real chop-builder."

 

 

In its earliest incarnations, PBR consisted of friends who graduated

from Shawnee Mission East in '67 and '68. "We were born out of that

late-'60s Kansas City scene -- the Vanguard, the Aquarius -- places

where people were hanging out," McLane says. "We'd all played jazz and

R&B together, in all different kinds of aggregations." McLane, who

started hearing reggae when he played in New York and south Florida in

the early '70s, immediately knew it was something he wanted to do.

 

 

"I came back to KC and said, 'We really ought to try to play some reggae

music,'" McLane explains. "It was big-time dance music, and we all love

dance music, so we started experimenting. By '74, we had something that

was workable, a band called Rhythm Funkshun. That band, basically a

rhythm section version of what became PBR, broke up because it was a

little bit ahead of its time.

 

 

"About a year and a half later, we started PBR," McLane continues. "We

were playing 10 percent ska, 10 percent calypso, maybe 25 percent

straight-up R&B, and the rest of it would be reggae. People were just

everywhere, on top of each other, dancing."

 

 

During the early '80s, PBR toured nonstop, burning through two vans and

42 of 50 states. "We just had our nose to the grindstone and never

stopped," McLane says. "We really should have taken more time out to

record, but it was 'dollar a day, give us what you can' and keep moving.

When it got to the point where we could actually play it good, we made a

record [1981's Restless Spirit]."

 

 

PBR made several trips to Jamaica, where it learned from the genre's

best practitioners. "Jamaican musicians are really approachable, and

we'd hang out with them -- a cultural exchange," McLane explains.

Equally accessible were Jamaican DJs. "When I flew down there in late

'81, I brought a box of 25 records, and I thought, What the hell. I'll

drive them up to [Kingston radio stations] RJR and JBC. While I was

driving to JBC, I heard the song come over RJR -- and I just about drove

off the road. I thought, I'm driving around Jamaica, and I'm hearing my

own music on the radio!"

 

 

Six months later, Blue Riddim became the first American band to play

Sunsplash in Jamaica. "We were voted co-'Best Band' of the entire

festival," McLane says. "It blew me away that we blew them away. I was

expecting pineapples and cantaloupes thrown at us. We're playing these

old songs, and we're also from America, and we're also white. It's five

o'clock in the morning, and they're going, 'What in the ... ?'

 

 

"The lyrics from the very first song, "Smile," are It's best to arrive

with a smile on your face, and just at that moment, the sun was creaking

up over the mountain and shining down onto the field," McLane recalls.

"People are getting the sun in their eyes right as they hear these

lyrics, and they started screaming and bawling and jumping up and down.

All of a sudden you had 20,000 people jumping up and down." That

performance, released in 1984 as Alive in Jamaica, earned the band a

Grammy nomination.

 

 

Twenty years later, the Blue Riddim Band returns home for an encore.

Longstanding veterans, including Scott Korchak (vocals, brass), Jack

Lightfoot (trumpet), Jeff Porter (vocals, guitar), Jack Blackett (tenor

sax), Joe Miquelon (keyboards) and Todd "Bebop" Byrd (bass) will be

joined by folks such as Stephanie Cox (trombonist for the Loose Cannon

Brass Band -- still another of PBR's permutations). Says McLane, "It's

like any band that's been around for this long -- whoever's left

standing who wants to show up can play.

 

 

"We lost Bob Zohn, a great singer and songwriter from Florida who died

several years back, but basically the core of the band exists here in

good ol' Kansas City," McLane explains. "It's great, because a lot of

SDI [strategic Dance Initiative] alums have come into the Blue Riddim

fold, and we all play together. For this particular show, we'll have a

taste of SDI, a taste of New Riddim [a more recent dancehall version of

the band], older Blue Riddim, newer Blue Riddim -- whatever we're

serving up at that particular time." For old fans -- and new -- it's a

chance to get reacquainted with a band that made the Caribbean feel as

if it were just next door.

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Originally posted by misterdregs

Here is an article from the local freebie alternative press ("The Pitch") from 2002 that I found:

 

 

that's a cool article. thanks for the intel.

 

i remember when i was stranded in Kansas City i met a dub bass player named Josh Powers.

 

here's a review of one of his mix CDs ... also from The Pitch: http://pitch.com/issues/2003-12-11/hearnow3.html

 

that guy was cool as {censored}. he gave me a bitchin' tape that was unfortunately stolen from me by a crackhead with a brick.

 

unrelated to reggae but not unrelated to black music: i also saw Everette DeVan twice while i was there. he's a mother{censored}er. KC is lucky to have an organist of that calibre.

 

i also remember a really good acid jazz DJ spinning in the beergarden of one of the bars in what i think was the westport area. i'm pretty sure it was near the Grand Emporium ... i could be wrong though.

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it's not. i'm not a hippie, but i am white. my reggae doesn't suck. therefore, there is some white reggae which is neither bad nor made by hippies

 

Well sorry to tell you but know a strictly Caribbean crowd, especially Jamaican, will give not props to a band that does not play the music right. Try it and see a bunch of blank faces staring at you like what the hell are you doing. I have experienced it seen it more than once, and heard others talk about it in the audience. If a band sound's traditional or play's right that is one thing but I will tell you what most of the time it is not that way. Playing Reggae is not just like playing blues or something. You have to immerse yourself in the culture. It is about the food, politics, music, the people and everything else. It is not just about trying to learn to play from a couple Marley records and smoking some weed. I listend to your sound clip and it was not even close. You can call it Reggae but it is not. I am not trying to be mean but I have been involved with the music for a lot of years.

 

Sorry race plays a part but it is how things are sometimes. I was talking to some of the guy's in the band about this. This is cultural music and is heavily immersed in Jamaican history and the struggles of black people. Reggae that is popular now is Cappleton, Beenie Man, Sizzla, Lady Saw, Vegas, Luciano, and a host of others. True it is not politcal-social lyrics now but it is the music now of their streets. You hear it alot in the Bronx and parts of NYC.

 

The old stand-by's like Judy Mowatt, Sugar Minot, Everton Blender, The Mighty-Diamonds, Burning Spear, Beres Hammond, Marcia Griffiths, Steel Pulse, Inner Circle and Third World will always have their place. I'm sorry to rant but this is something I know about. I listen to it, play it, practice it and most of all live it. You can play what you want but people should not give advice unless they know what they are talking about. I am not saying it is the case here but there is a lot of bad advice on this forum already.

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Originally posted by Outkaster

Playing Reggae is not just like playing blues or something. ... It is not just about trying to learn to play from a couple Marley records and smoking some weed. I listend to your sound clip and it was not even close.

 

 

dude. that's awesome.

 

you're totally getting quoted in my press pack.

 

alongside ...

 

"Worst 300 dollars I ever spent" - JD Comfort, Jim's Steakhouse

 

"... Evokes moods ..." - Clarence Moore, Peoria Journal Star

 

"Eat this, ambient bitch!" - Tim Beck, Beck's Boss Sound Studio

 

 

man ... i really didn't post that to get your approval. personally, i don't care what purist musicians think about my music. i'm a fusion artist.

 

i'm too beaty for ambient, too spacey for jazz, not a good enough singer, i lack the chops of my idols, and i'm too punk for punk rock.

 

but i would at least like you to acknowledge three things:

 

a) that i do not approach live ambient dub reggae from a pot-smoking bead-wearing hemp-sholaced hippie perspective, and i make no claims to rastafarism nor do i smoke wisdom weed.

 

b) that you did not recognise the melody of that tune, and that you did not find the humour in the naming of the tune.

 

c) that while my dub bass is not good enough for you, my drummer cannot handle jamaican music, and that the textures of the guitarist and i did not find spiritual resonance with you, that i do care more about trying to be honest about playing that music than Eric Clapton ever was.

 

d) that i was the first person in this thread to put their ass on the line and point to an mp3 of their own playing for these people who have apparently opened for everyone from Black Uhuru to the Skatellites to Bob Marley himself. the only name dropping i'll do is "i had a very long chat about fountain pens with the saxophonist from The Articles. oh ... i also ran sound for Skapone once. they sucked."

 

i would love to send you all of my reggae variant tunes and have you rip them apart. you claim to know what you're talking about and feel passionately about it and i can respect that.

 

man ... i really think we'd get along great in person. i'm not here attacking you man. i really think we agree more than disagree.

 

btw, if you think playing reggae right is hard ... don't say playing the blues is easy. all you do is further accentuate the unfortunate rift in black music between jamaica and america. it's bad enough trying to get some respect going for reggae beyond old bob from soul musicians without reggae musicians saying the blues is easy.

 

do you think Memphis is easy? i really wanna know how you feel about _that_ black music variant.

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This is a very interesting thread and I do have respect for Outkaster's authenticity. I am not worthy...

 

I am definitely not deeply immersed in the culture and never claimed to be, so take my words with somewhat of a grain of salt. I was in a ska/reggae/world beat/pop-ish group for a number of years. We did get the opportunity to play with a number of authentic and less-than-authentic reggae and ska groups. We were mostly a high-energy ska band, but a little more cerebral than a lot of punk-infused ska bands. We learned and played a number of classic reggae covers along the way, intermingled with diverse hybrid music like The Police and English Beat. We were all white guys with a black lead singer. Definitely not a purist traditional reggae band, but certainly influenced by the genre and surprise, surprise...we took it in our own direction. It was closer to the UB40 pop sound with reggae/ska underpinnings...about 75% of the night, I was playing some sort of organ bubble or chopping piano sounds on the offbeat. This may be sacrilege, but one newspaper reviewer said we sounded like "reggae on crack."

 

I have a feeling Outkaster would categorize us as posers, but that's ok. I think there is value in getting a wide variety of opinions on all topics and there are seemingly few people talking about the intricacies of actually playing organ in the reggae idiom. I spent some time in this space and can hopefully provide some help through a slightly different lens.

 

As for MP3s, I enjoyed listening to suitandtieguy's music and I got the tonge-in-cheek thing with the movie theme quote. Nice Hammond sound! Today I do not have MP3s of the band I was in, but it used to be on MP3.com until that went down. I will investigate one of the new sites that allow posting MP3s and try to get up a couple of examples when I have a moment.

 

Regards,

Eric

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I know you guy's were not looking for approval and I know I was not trying to be harsh and I do not call you guy's posers. Truth is there is no loyalty to music anywhere hardley anymore. There is something to be said for dedicating yourself to a style of music. That also does not mean you cannot like other styles. I had to tell my bass player and drummer last night that they have to love Reggae or it will show on stage if they are going through the motions. They come from R & B funk background and have a hard time with the discipline of it. To play the same thing over and over as a musician is something you have to get used to. Some musicians can not make the transisition because they want to play too many notes. Other Jamaicans, whether they were musicians or not have told me musicians are the hands of god and that we have to be honest with the music. I was not trying to start and argument but Reggae get's no respect because it is more international. People here have Rock, blues, R&B and Gospel. Those music styles are popular in Jamaican but for an island 90 miles wide a great style comes from it.

 

Suitandtieguy we would get along great. You carry a C-2 around Quaterfoil and all, and just that makes me respect you. You like being a fusion artist and that's cool. I guess it is when you would label things as "Reggae" it will raise a flag in people like me. People call Shaggy Reggae and he himself said "no my music is more pop than traditional Reggae music". I saw it in an interview last year. When Marley got inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame a few years ago they play "Could You be Loved" and butchered it. It was really sad. I was watching it with my guitarist and he was like what the {censored} is that?

 

Blues and Memphis is hard music because it is based on feel but if you are a good enough musician it is not that hard to get. I am not going to play a Springsteen song like "Janey don't you lose heart" like I would a dub tune. It just means knowing what to put where. Thanks you guys and good luck.

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Originally posted by Outkaster

Actually no ok but try to go for the root music and where it started. It is like listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn to understand blues see what I mean? Go to internet and pick up Talkin Blues by the Wailers or Burning. You can get those albums on E-bay and Half.com. Here are better examples of bubbling. Let me know how you make out.


"Put it On" from the Wailers


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002Y9T6U/qid=1113335346/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-0713696-7149723


A Marley Song "Crazy Baldheads":


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007E7H5/qid=1113335492/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/102-0713696-7149723?v=glance&s=music


"Roller Skates" by Steel Pulse


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002HBN/qid=1113335624/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-0713696-7149723

 

Thanks for the links Outkaster. I knew the Samples weren't a good example to use, but that was the first song that came to mind with a clear use of the organ in that manner. Just grabbed it for convenience, not authenticity. :) Thanks for the help and leads.

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