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vintage 70's analog korg cx-3 organ vs. newer ones.

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  • vintage 70's analog korg cx-3 organ vs. newer ones.

    hi. im seeing some good deals on vintage ones. i dont care about the lack of presets or whatever so much. but, soundwise, reliabilty, operational ease or whatever...what are your thoughts on the vintage ones? i may pull teh trigger on one soon. what shortcomings should i be aware of?

  • #2
    I have the newer one and I'm debating selling it. I've posted on Korgforums but Korg never addressed my issue with it. The new one has a bunch of features that the old one doesn't have (MIDI, leslie, presets, etc) but there's one important thing that the new one has the old one doesn't:

    ALIASING

    I can't hold a simple chord in the upper registers without a ton of annoying aliasing. I used it live twice and both sound guys requested me to stop using it and just play the organ parts on my Triton or M50.

    Been a LONG time since I played the original CX-3 but I'm debating dumping my new CX-3 at a hefty loss and picking up the old one myself.

    -Mc
    Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

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    • #3
      forgive my ignorance but what is aliasing? im guessing its some annoying overtone or something?

      i prefer more organic analog (and old) type stuff anyways so i may go for teh older model.

      Comment


      • #4
        Aliasing is when you actually hear the samples looping. When you play in the upper registers is when it's really bad. The loop points of multiple notes are out of sync and you get this really weird harmonic/overtone/noise/whatever that is so distracting you can't NOT notice it. For example, when I play that slow chord pattern in Foreplay, the aliasing sounds so bad, it's louder than the actual notes I'm playing. I won't take it to gigs anymore.

        Supposedly, the new CX-3 is a modeling organ but I can't believe it. The samples used on the Triton (released the same time) don't have aliasing nearly as bad. I'm confused it's so bad to be honest.

        I see the old ones go in the neighborhood of $400 or so. You really can't go wrong with 'em.
        Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

        Comment


        • #5
          The new version of the CX3 circa 2001-present completely schools the vintage one circa ~1980-1985 in many ways:

          - Sounds great out of the box, does not require external Leslie or other simulation like the old one
          - True waterfall action keyboard vs. rickety diving board keys
          - UI is authentic to the Hammond tonewheel experience
          - Two sets of drawbars
          - MIDI
          - Lots of other bells and whistles
          - Old one has proprietary chips that fail over time and are near impossible to replace

          The old one is a little bit fun when grinding through a real Leslie, but the new one is a much finer instrument.

          Regards,
          Eric
          Originally posted by p120dUdE
          These are family forums, and many young kids come here and read them.

          I am sure there will be no problems, but if there is, my moderation team will take action.

          Originally posted by ChasIII
          Im so sick of keyboards. All this keyboard stuff people always use. All this keyboard synth talk all the time. I'm done with it. Never again.

          Im thinking that at some point I will have to stop this and start doing other things. Any thoughts, feelings, or ideas?

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          • #6

            I see the old ones go in the neighborhood of $400 or so. You really can't go wrong with 'em.

            this is what im thinking.

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            • #7
              im ultimately looking at either a vintage cx3 or a hammond xk2.

              are there any big pros and cons with those two? could anyone do a comparison for me? any info is appreciated

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              • #8
                im ultimately looking at either a vintage cx3 or a hammond xk2.

                are there any big pros and cons with those two? could anyone do a comparison for me? any info is appreciated


                Why narrow your sights on just these two when there are many more that do the job better for not too much more $$? You will definitely need to factor in external Leslie solutions for either of these, whether you go Motion Sound, real Leslie, or some kind of sim like the CLS-222, Ventilator, Rotosphere, etc. So count on that expense unless you already have this covered.

                Of these two, the XK2 is definitely the winner. True waterfall keys, better tone, typical modern amenities like MIDI, etc.
                Originally posted by p120dUdE
                These are family forums, and many young kids come here and read them.

                I am sure there will be no problems, but if there is, my moderation team will take action.

                Originally posted by ChasIII
                Im so sick of keyboards. All this keyboard stuff people always use. All this keyboard synth talk all the time. I'm done with it. Never again.

                Im thinking that at some point I will have to stop this and start doing other things. Any thoughts, feelings, or ideas?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have the newer one and I'm debating selling it. I've posted on Korgforums but Korg never addressed my issue with it. The new one has a bunch of features that the old one doesn't have (MIDI, leslie, presets, etc) but there's one important thing that the new one has the old one doesn't:

                  ALIASING

                  I can't hold a simple chord in the upper registers without a ton of annoying aliasing. I used it live twice and both sound guys requested me to stop using it and just play the organ parts on my Triton or M50.

                  Been a LONG time since I played the original CX-3 but I'm debating dumping my new CX-3 at a hefty loss and picking up the old one myself.

                  -Mc


                  Still having those issues? Did you buy it second hand or new? Because if you bought it new you could probably return it and get a new one, right?

                  Btw. Have you played any other CX3 to see if it has the same problems?

                  Lot's of questions here..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Aliasing is when you actually hear the samples looping.

                    That is not what aliasing is.
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                    • #11
                      Yeah, aliasing is distortion that occurs due to the limitations of digital's finite sampling. In audio, this will show up as odd frequencies. Bad loop points will manifest themselves as clicks. Not sure which of the two phenoms you are referring to there.
                      What I make with way too many blinky light modular items, plugins, and an Alesis Andromeda.
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                      • #12
                        The issue is aliasing, not loop points (I do understand the difference but still can't find a real easy way to explain aliasing without sound examples to someone who doesn't know what aliasing is). But yah, it's aliasing. In the upper registers, it's so loud it sounds like loop points.

                        I bought it new and have confirmed it on every *NEW* CX-3 I've played since.

                        I posted an example here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NTB2DDVR

                        If you listen to it through PC speakers, you won't hear it. If you listen to it with headphones or through a quality, full range PA you can't miss it.

                        I run from C to C on a VERY clean patch with: Amp simulation - off. Amp type set to Preamp. Noise - off. Overtones - off. Chorus/vibrato - off. Treble and bass set to 0. Leakage - off. Wheel type - clean.

                        I've played church organs, real B3's, M100, Hammond XK1 and XK3, as well as a bunch of other crappy organs (including romplers) and none of them are this bad (at least that I've found so far).

                        I'm kinda pissed at Korg because all over their ads for this thing they said it was modeled, not sampled. I claim B.S. unless they define "modeled" as meant to emulate.

                        -Mc
                        Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Still having those issues? Did you buy it second hand or new? Because if you bought it new you could probably return it and get a new one, right?

                          Btw. Have you played any other CX3 to see if it has the same problems?

                          Lot's of questions here..


                          I listened to the wave file that McHale posted and I don't hear what he's referring to...it sounds like a Hammond to me. My initial impression is that there's a lot of reverb, too much treble and you have the Leslie simulator bypassed. In general, however, it sounds like a tonewheel organ. Mc, did you try knocking off some of the high end with the onboard EQ? Foreplay should begin with 888800000.

                          I've had a CX3 (modern version) for 5 years and have never had a problem with it (recording or live). I've even covered Foreplay/Longtime with it through more PAs than I can remember.

                          I'm sure Korg has sold plenty of these keyboards. If there was a real issue with it, somebody would be talking about it somewhere on the internet but I haven't heard anything.
                          Keyboards: Roland Fantom G6 (2); Korg Kronos 61; Muse Receptor VIP; Nord Electro 3; Privia PX-350Guitar Stuff: Route 101 Solimar; Line 6 POD X3 Live, Pocket POD (2)

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                          • #14
                            I've had a CX3 (modern version) for 5 years and have never had a problem with it (recording or live). I've even covered Foreplay/Longtime with it through more PAs than I can remember.


                            I tried to remove ANY thing that would add any color to the sound. I was told it was the amp simulation or the Leslie or... So I removed it all and ran it flat.

                            Try this (with headphones):

                            Take one of the mellow organ patches. Hold the very high C (don't let go through the test). Now slowly move from C to C.

                            I've done this same test (with headphones on) on 6 different CX-3's as well as had confirmation from others online who have tried it and confirmed it.

                            Are you playing through computer speakers? If so, you won't hear it.

                            I'm downloading (from work) and going to test with a crappy set of ear buds I have in the office to see if quality of headphones will make much difference.

                            -Mc
                            Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just confirmed on the sound file I uploaded. Give it a little volume and with headphones, you can't miss it. If you wait until the note progression is over and listen to the chord progression from Foreplay, you'll hear it.

                              I have very sensitive hearing as well as perfect pitch but suspect anyone can hear this...

                              -Mc
                              Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

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