just got a hammond SK1

[c4racer]

To replace my trusty Korg CX3 gen-2 tonewheel clone.

My main motivation is to cut down on the weight of my rig that I am hauling to gigs. I tried to move to a semi-weighted lower board to save on the weight and size, but ultimately ended up deciding that I just need to keep gigging with the Yamaha S90-ES as my main lower board for pianos and synths - it covers everything I need for my current band besides organs including the ability to create nice rich custom layered patches and splits. So while it's a pain to haul a 50lb board, I've determined there is just no better alternative for me at this point.

So my B3 board for the past decade or so has been a second gen Korg CX3. I have been very happy with the sound and tweakability of this board, and I like the keyboard feel. My biggest complaint is the bulk - the thing weighs 40lbs and is rather bulky, especially as an upper board. Combined weight of my two boards is 90lbs, and hauling that around for gigs and rehearsals gets old.

I have logged a couple hours so far on the SK1 finding the sounds I like the best and matching them and tweaking them for the songs I need to cover on B3 with my main gigging band. I will get a chance to try it out at a gig next Friday for the first time, and it is a 3 set gig so we will play a good portion of our material. That should give me a better sense how it works as a live board and how it sounds in the mix.

My initial impression wasn't very favorable, but the more I play it and tweak the sounds the more it is growing on me. Part of that is that I am very used to how the CX3 sounded, so it takes some adjustment. Our lead singer and guitarist who is also a keyboard player and used to tour with a real hammond was not as impressed with the Korg sound as I was. He has a nord2 and really liked the B3 sounds on it - I felt the Korg was a more faithful reproduction personally. It will be interesting to also get his perspective on the SK1 once I test drive it on our gig next week.

I think the bottom line for me so far is that the CX3 is still a pretty darn good tonewheel clone. Initially the keyboard on the SK1 felt too stiff, but I am getting used to it and finding it better in some ways to the Korg, but not as good in other ways. Same thing with the sounds - certain things about the Korg I still prefer, but I am finding some sounds the SK1 does better too. I am pretty sure this SK1 will work out good for me even though it really doesn't give me a much better sound profile that I was expecting from the latest and greatest hammond clone engine. If nothing else it reduces the weight burden down to 65lbs total 2-board vs. 90lbs with the CX3. And with the piano and string sounds I can get by with just the SK1 for most rehearsals, so I am planning to sell the Kurzweil SP4-7 I had been using for that purpose since I no longer gig with it and always take the S90-ES as my piano / synth board.

[wesg]

What are you using for a Leslie? I bet that will make more of a difference than SK1 vs. CX3. I'm assuming you have the old CX3, from the 80s?

You could run a DX7 through a Leslie 760 and fool 2 out of 3 band members.

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by wesg

I'm assuming you have the old CX3, from the 80s?

 

No, he said 2nd gen.

[c4racer]

not using a leslie - if I was hauling a leslie to gigs I would not be stressing out about the minor weight of a CX3 cabinet!

[c4racer]

 

Originally Posted by AnotherScott

No, he said 2nd gen.

 

right - it's the version from the 90's. The leslie sim is pretty good. The SK1 is supposed to have an improved leslie sim vs. the XK-1 or XK-3. I don't notice that much difference from the CX3 leslie sim personally.

[vianthecat]

S90 ES is such a heavy tank.. I'm just saying as another option: If you consider to sell SP4-7, why won't you think about purchasing a MOX8? I am sure this board will be a perfect choice for rehearsals with its newer XS sound engine and 32 lbs weight.

I don't know but MOX8 at bottom / SK1 at upper tier seems to me a perfect gigging combination. The total is 47 pounds and covers almost everything; correct me if I'm wrong.. By the way, have a good time with your new board

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by vianthecat

S90 ES is such a heavy tank.. I'm just saying as another option: If you consider to sell SP4-7, why won't you think about purchasing a MOX8? I am sure this board will be a perfect choice for rehearsals with its newer XS sound engine and 32 lbs weight.

I don't know but MOX8 at bottom / SK1 at upper tier seems to me a perfect gigging combination. The total is 47 pounds and covers almost everything; correct me if I'm wrong.. By the way, have a good time with your new board

That is an excellent idea. I would think the M0X8 would suit my needs just fine. Once I sell the SP4-7 and the CX3 I will start looking into that angle!

[WynnD]

I have a couple of leslies that I use together for outdoor gigs. I've pretty much stopped carrying them to gigs, because the VK-77's fake leslie sound is just about as good as a mic'd leslie. (When carrying Leslie's I don't mic them. 3D sound trumps 2D sound anyday.) And I get a lot of crap from the guitarist that he can't hear the organ. (If he didn't play so loud, that wouldn't be a problem. Of course, turning down won't cure his hearing problem.) I did drag the 760 out for NYE gig. I figured extra pay deserved extra sound. (It's about due for a clean and lube. I've been using that one since 1980 and have an 825 that I've used since 1971)

[Strenge]

Ironically, I'm expecting delivery of a 2nd gen Korg CX-3 Monday Might be yours if you sold it to a Guitar Center in Texas...

Hopefully, UPS will not destroy it as they did a Kurzweil PC361 that was delivered a week ago. They must have dropped it on a corner of the box.

For me, a CX-3 makes little practical sense but I'm liking what you have to say about it I may not bring it to every gig but I wanted to see what's it like to own something a little more "organ-y" for once...drawbars, wood (for tone! wait, this isn't the electric guitar forum?!?) and waterfall keys.
It comes with a flight case for $860 after tax/shipping...this is both good and bad, I'm dreading the lug but looking forward to playing the thing!

If I could have afforded it I would have preferred the SK-1 for sure. I liked the keys and it sounded great, and light of course...an electro 3 would have been nice for the price if it were not for the keybed (don't like it at all).

[c4racer]

no - I haven't sold mine yet. Waiting to get one gig under the belt with the SK1 to make sure it's a keeper. I'm still not totally convinced about that. I guess it could be worth it for the weight savings alone.

[dan88z]

Originally Posted by c4racer

That is an excellent idea. I would think the M0X8 would suit my needs just fine. Once I sell the SP4-7 and the CX3 I will start looking into that angle!

Half the polyphony and no aftertouch on the MOX. Those were both show stoppers for me, especially no after touch. I use it for mod wheel type stuff and then use the mod wheel for controlling the filter, etc.

I completely get the organ sound issue. When I 1st got my vent, it took me a while to get used to the change in sound over the built in sim on my Electro. Now I'm used to it and love how it sounds. I'm sure the SK will grow on you over time. Enjoy your new board!

[AnotherScott]

Originally Posted by dan88z

Half the polyphony and no aftertouch on the MOX. Those were both show stoppers for me, especially no after touch.

Based on your live gear list, couldn't you go out with the MOX8 and the Nord Stage Compact and get your AT that way? (You can use the Nord to trigger sounds in the MOX, and I'm almost certain that the MOX sounds can be programmed to respond to AT even though its own keybed doesn't generate it.)

Of course, that doesn't really help the OP if he wants AT, as the SK1 doesn't send it either.

[Piano Whore]

I've been playing my SK1 for a year, after my Electro II rack died, and I really like it. I consider several of the extra SK sounds to be not only useable but very good. It's also very nice to be able to MIDI in an 88-key to play the EP's from a weighted board. The SK Leslie sim is great but I still use a Ventilator on most gigs, for it's tonal characteristics.

I've also owned and gigged with the digital CX3 and thoroughly enjoyed it's playability and action, although I prefer the organ sound of the Hammond or Nord. Both of those sound less processed and more meatier and Hammond-like to my thoroughly trashed ears. I've never been able to pair the CX3 with a Vent but that combination might have done it for me, judging from the sound of Tucktronix's (where did HE go, BTW?) rig. Appearance-wise, I much prefer the Korg to the too-tiny Hammond, which looks almost toy-like on a stand by itself (around these parts you're judged by the size of your organ as well as it's performance). But stacking the SK1 on a bigger board somewhat mitigates that.

Enjoy your SK1, c4racer!

[Synthaholic]

Originally Posted by c4racer

That is an excellent idea. I would think the M0X8 would suit my needs just fine. Once I sell the SP4-7 and the CX3 I will start looking into that angle!

Why are you selling your SP4-7, if you don't mind me asking?

And good luck with your SK1. I play one once a month at a jam, and like the feel. Haven't heard the onboard Leslie since this one is running through a real one. Some of the other sounds aren't bad, either. Especially the clavs.

I used to own a 1st generation CX3 in a baby blue Calzone flight case. I loved it, but it was a bitch to carry around. I sold it about 8 years ago to Pat Ramsey's son. I stopped using it probably 20+ years ago.

[dan88z]

Originally Posted by AnotherScott

Based on your live gear list, couldn't you go out with the MOX8 and the Nord Stage Compact and get your AT that way? (You can use the Nord to trigger sounds in the MOX, and I'm almost certain that the MOX sounds can be programmed to respond to AT even though its own keybed doesn't generate it.)

Of course, that doesn't really help the OP if he wants AT, as the SK1 doesn't send it either.

I suppose that would work, but why overly complicate things? The XS does what I need it to do. I don't mind the weight, I love the feel of the board and I like the sounds.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by dan88z

... I don't mind the weight, I love the feel of the board and I like the sounds.

My sentiments exactly! As long as a keyboard is what I would consider a "one man lift" (which for me is pretty much anything less than 80 lbs) - if I love the feel and like the sounds - I don't mind the weight.

I certainly won't bitch if a board is lighter ... but given that I'm gonna move it on a hand truck regardless of what it weighs - the 60-90 seconds I'm going to actually be lifting the board (i.e., in/out of the van, on/off the keyboard stand) - I don't let the extra 20-30 lbs dissuade me from using a keyboard that I'd prefer all other factors considered.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

My sentiments exactly! As long as a keyboard is what I would consider a "one man lift" (which for me is pretty much anything less than 80 lbs) - if I love the feel and like the sounds - I don't mind the weight.

I certainly won't bitch if a board is lighter ... but given that I'm gonna move it on a hand truck regardless of what it weighs - the 60-90 seconds I'm going to actually be lifting the board (i.e., in/out of the van, on/off the keyboard stand) - I don't let the extra 20-30 lbs dissuade me from using a keyboard that I'd prefer all other factors considered.

I should start using a handtruck - that would help.

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by dan88z

I suppose that would work, but why overly complicate things? The XS does what I need it to do. I don't mind the weight, I love the feel of the board and I like the sounds.

 

I agree. The biggest reason to choose a MOX over an S70/90XS is the weight. If the weight isn't an issue for you, sure, stick with the XS!

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by dan88z

Half the polyphony and no aftertouch on the MOX. Those were both show stoppers for me, especially no after touch. I use it for mod wheel type stuff and then use the mod wheel for controlling the filter, etc.

I completely get the organ sound issue. When I 1st got my vent, it took me a while to get used to the change in sound over the built in sim on my Electro. Now I'm used to it and love how it sounds. I'm sure the SK will grow on you over time. Enjoy your new board!

ya - I don't like half the polyphony and no AF. Although I'm not exactly sure how much I use AF in my current bands other than the synth patch on Thriller where I use it to change the sound a bit during certain sections of the song. I may do that on a few other things but just don't realize I am doing it too. I hate to give up a feature. And I am completely happy with the S90ES for everything except lugging around a bit more weight than I'd like.

I haven't played the SK1 in a band setting yet, but I have spent several hours in my studio messing around with it and playing along with setlist material and other songs on my ipod and I am really starting to warm up to the sounds - it seems to sit in the mix really nicely, even better than the CX3 does. The keyboard is a little bit stiffer which took some getting used to, but I find I actually prefer it to the Korg now with some time getting acclimated.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by Synthaholic

Why are you selling your SP4-7, if you don't mind me asking?

And good luck with your SK1. I play one once a month at a jam, and like the feel. Haven't heard the onboard Leslie since this one is running through a real one. Some of the other sounds aren't bad, either. Especially the clavs.

I used to own a 1st generation CX3 in a baby blue Calzone flight case. I loved it, but it was a bitch to carry around. I sold it about 8 years ago to Pat Ramsey's son. I stopped using it probably 20+ years ago.

ya - the clavs and some of the EPs are nice, but nothing better than what I have available on the S90ES board, so probably won't use them live much. I may use some of the strings instead of creating split patches on the Yamaha when I need to add some strings on a song where I use other sounds primarily.

Oh - I am selling the SP4-7 because I just don't use it. I bought it as a smaller footprint board to use for gigs where space was cramped and for rehearsals. But I am to the point where I just need to bring the S90ES for all gigs - I have so many custom patches set up that I can't make it work with the Kurz anymore. Plus I really don't like playing piano stuff on a partially weighted keyboard. I am a piano player by background - learned on acoustic pianos and played them for years, still have one in my house. I am just much happier playing on the Yamaha, so it's worth hauling around more weight to me. Now with the SK1, I can cover what we call basement rehearsals, where we learn new material, work on background vocals, etc. which is kinda semi acoustic. I need something with piano, B3, EP and strings and can pretty much cover any material for that purpose. And that is the only situation where I am using the SP4-7 now.

[Synthaholic]

Originally Posted by c4racer

ya - the clavs and some of the EPs are nice, but nothing better than what I have available on the S90ES board, so probably won't use them live much. I may use some of the strings instead of creating split patches on the Yamaha when I need to add some strings on a song where I use other sounds primarily.

Oh - I am selling the SP4-7 because I just don't use it. I bought it as a smaller footprint board to use for gigs where space was cramped and for rehearsals. But I am to the point where I just need to bring the S90ES for all gigs - I have so many custom patches set up that I can't make it work with the Kurz anymore. Plus I really don't like playing piano stuff on a partially weighted keyboard. I am a piano player by background - learned on acoustic pianos and played them for years, still have one in my house. I am just much happier playing on the Yamaha, so it's worth hauling around more weight to me. Now with the SK1, I can cover what we call basement rehearsals, where we learn new material, work on background vocals, etc. which is kinda semi acoustic. I need something with piano, B3, EP and strings and can pretty much cover any material for that purpose. And that is the only situation where I am using the SP4-7 now.

Thanks for the reply. Other than how it fits into your rig needs, how do you like the SP4-7? I've been considering one for a while now because of the bulkiness of my PC3, but haven't met anyone who owned one, and have never seen one in any music stores.

[c4racer]

 

Originally Posted by Synthaholic

Thanks for the reply. Other than how it fits into your rig needs, how do you like the SP4-7? I've been considering one for a while now because of the bulkiness of my PC3, but haven't met anyone who owned one, and have never seen one in any music stores.

 

I sent a post, but seemed to get lost somehow... Anyway - it is very solid all-arounder with a small footprint and size. good pianos and EPs, good B3, good strings, and a few decent synth but the selection is limited and it isn't very editable. The main sounds I found lacking are various synths - the Yamaha has a much better synth engine. Keyboard itself is pretty good for a compramise - pretty good for organ, EP and synths - not perfect for piano, but workable and better than non weighted for sure.

[Kevin T]

Not sure how to pm

im getting an SP4 7 soon. How much for yours & location?

[DenCV]

How are you liking the SK now that you've had it a while? My story is similar, was using a CX3 gen2 along with a real wurly, and the wurly was starting to show some wear. Plus venues are shrinking out here. So I got the SK specifically for the size and ability to cover piano and wurly at the same time. I tried it at the store, and took it home after 5 minutes on the thing! After two weeks I could't seem to get it to sound right through the leslie, although it sounded great  with the vent. I was also not real used to it, and had a real important gig coming which the leslie was expected on. SO I got out the Korg, ABed them, and the korg blew it away on the leslie. I ended up using it for wurly and doing organ on the korg. I was OK with this, knowing smaller gigs would be cool with just the SK/vent. I'd keep the Korg for the bigger organ-leslie things. Then I discovered the make your own tg thing on the SK. That's the secret of the SK1 in my opinion. I copied my  hammond cv in the studio, and now I have the same great mellow hammond sound I have in the studio live with either the vent or the leslie. Just for kicks I pulled out the cx again and ABed. The cx3 is now for sale. So definitely spend some time tweaking if you still don't have the organ sound you want, it will blow the Korg away once it's dialed in, but not with factory sounds.

[wesg]

Make your own TG? Elaborate, please? Does it let you sample 91 to ewheels and then use them? Can you tweak the levels afterwards? How does it fare with fold back, tapering, etc?