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Motif ES6 vs Motif XS6- very detailed comparison

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  • #46
    Hmmm ... perhaps a trip to GC is in order.

    I've been avoiding that place of late.

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    • #47
      you saw my GC visit report-typical junk you have to endure

      Plus they had the XS8 plugged into a KC300- that had blown speakers. Nice

      Bring your headphones, get their early ( before the neighborhood kids) during the week

      BTW, the CP70 sounds tremendous on the XS



      Bring headphones
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><i><font color="Blue">I live a life of fearless self invention</font></i><br />
      <br />
      <i><font color="RoyalBlue">If you want to see God laugh, don't make any plans </font></i><br />
      <br />
      Good is the <i><font color="Sienna">Enemy</font></i> of <i><font color="Indigo">Great</font></i></div>

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      • #48
        The Motif XS is bangin. It crushes it's predecessors. I worked with an ES7 for 4 years and recently sold it to get the XS6. I use use Cubase, so the integration was what was after,but wasn't sure what to expect as far as sounds. They're crisp and thick. I've been in front of it for the last 6 hours. It really is ridiculous! None of the competition can hang with this green machine. Everytime I touch it, something fun-key comes pouring out. :love:


        Good read. I keep wondering if I am missing something. I went to GC with my own headphones and on an early Monday, so external noise wasn't a factor. I just wasn't able to hear an Earth-shattering difference between the XS-8 and my S90-ES.

        There are quite a few voices I actually prefer on the S90-ES, particularly the acoustic pianos. The XS pianos are too bright and lowering the EQ highs didn't make the patches sound any better. From what I've read, the XS pianos are based off CFIII samples, while the S90-ES is based off S-700 samples. Whatever the reason, there is a level of intimacy on the S90-ES pianos that's missing on the XS.

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        • #49
          And did I hear correctly that the XS can use up to 8 elements, versus 4? That's cool...

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          • #50
            And did I hear correctly that the XS can use up to 8 elements, versus 4? That's cool...


            Yes ... and despite my previous plea for details ... nobody's said anything about that so far ... How many patches actually use more than four layers?

            I fear I won't have the time to slip away to GC tomorrow. I guess it's better during the week, anyway.

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            • #51
              I got to listen to an XS at GC today. They had it on the stand right above an ES so I was able to compare them directly. I picked the patches that were on both synths and there is a bigger wide open sound on the ES whereas the XS has that smaller or more compressed sound on the patches I compared, some brass, leads, and a few others. I liked the Ethnic selections on the XS, though the synth categories reminded me of the Fantom X, huge selection but not many catchy or usable sounds. There were better selection of synth sounds on the CS6x and yamaha has taken a step back since then. They need better synth programmers, all the focus on natural sounds has left them lagging in the synth department.

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              • #52
                The Motif XS is bangin. It crushes it's predecessors. I worked with an ES7 for 4 years and recently sold it to get the XS6.


                I thought you had given up workstations since you bought your OpenLabs miKo. Glad to see you can't get away from traditional hardware.

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                • #53
                  Yes ... and despite my previous plea for details ... nobody's said anything about that so far ... How many patches actually use more than four layers?

                  I fear I won't have the time to slip away to GC tomorrow. I guess it's better during the week, anyway.


                  I saw a YouTube vid with that guy Bert (I think from NAMM?) and he mentioned the 8 elements and played an organ patch.

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                  • #54
                    I thought you had given up workstations since you bought your OpenLabs miKo. Glad to see you can't get away from traditional hardware.


                    Oh no. I love the Miko,but it is still a computer. I'm so accustomed to putting things together on keyboard workstations. I started out with an M1 then ASR10, the Motif ES7 and replaced that with the XS6. I don't dismiss anything that may be a useful tool for making music! Plus the integration with Cubase, I couldn't pass up. Yamaha is supposed to have the Cubase AI editor software etc. available for download sometime next week. :lol:
                    <div class="signaturecontainer">current gear: Minimoog,Jupiter8,Hohner Combo Pianet,Hohner Clavinet C,Wurlitzer 200a,Yamaha YC-45D,Kurzweil k2vx,Oberheim Dx,MPC 3000 LE,Open Labs Miko,Tascam SX-1le Plus,Tascam 388 8 track,Yamaha EX5,Solaris<br />
                    Everyone knows me as a guitar player!</div>

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                    • #55
                      I left motifator.com a long time ago. I felt like Bruce Lee in Fists of Fury when a V-Synth argument broke out.

                      Too many fanatics!

                      Check it out, it might still be there.

                      Nice review but the S90ES is all the Yamaha I need. I mean that in a good and a bad way.

                      What complete idiot would even start with such an apples and rhinos comparison in the first place?

                      You don't have to be a fanboy to see that it's pointless to argue about in the first place. Was this started by a Motif-owner who thought his ES/XS could replace a V-Synth?
                      <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;Part of an instrument is what it can do, and part of it is what you do to it&quot; - Suzanne Ciani, 197x.<br />
                      <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2077413" target="_blank">Synthesizer Programming Megathread - add your tips &amp; tricks or ask how to recreate sounds!</a></div>

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                      • #56
                        I got to listen to an XS at GC today. They had it on the stand right above an ES so I was able to compare them directly. I picked the patches that were on both synths and there is a bigger wide open sound on the ES whereas the XS has that smaller or more compressed sound on the patches I compared, some brass, leads, and a few others. I liked the Ethnic selections on the XS, though the synth categories reminded me of the Fantom X, huge selection but not many catchy or usable sounds. There were better selection of synth sounds on the CS6x and yamaha has taken a step back since then. They need better synth programmers, all the focus on natural sounds has left them lagging in the synth department.


                        what kind of amps did GC have with the XS and ES ?
                        <div class="signaturecontainer"><i><font color="Blue">I live a life of fearless self invention</font></i><br />
                        <br />
                        <i><font color="RoyalBlue">If you want to see God laugh, don't make any plans </font></i><br />
                        <br />
                        Good is the <i><font color="Sienna">Enemy</font></i> of <i><font color="Indigo">Great</font></i></div>

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                        • #57
                          yes, that changed the concept.
                          you changed a huge part about samplers; namely, the fact that they all had to load what you wanted to use, first.
                          That's great, but the improved workflow and huge sample memory do not define the underlying synthesis model. ROMplers don't have to load anything as well, and hardware like Emulator IV also had very huge memory capacity for their time, but they are still digital samplers. If all of sudden the next Motif featured 4 GB of ROM and 4 GM of RAM, would that really change the concept?

                          8-way switching? Can I perhaps introduce you to Kontakt?

                          Can it have dynamically switched legato samples in a program?

                          Faster processor. That's only innovation on the side of the people who built that thing.
                          New screen with color. No innovation; in fact, too late.
                          New user interface. That's innovation, but not special.
                          New tone generator. Still plays back samples, still compressed.


                          Actually I don't have any problem with something not being introduced "for the very first time". It's not an inherently bad thing - I mean, what breakthroughs one should expect from yet another Les Paul guitar model, does having no "innovation" make it sound any worse? I don't even think the first synth to use the technologies mentioned above was an innovation, since touchscreens and color GUI were known for decades until they finally made it to synthesizer gear.

                          Yes, the XS is the ES on steroids, obviously not something really new and different like the VP-1/FS-1R or the V-Synth (though Yamaha could have included an improved AN/VL engine onboard like on the EX5, that's true). But to say that the XS is not any better than the ES is, well, a gross oversimplification - there are lots of incremental improvements (here is the a list compiled by Yamaha's product specialist), even though most of them are probably not "something that was never ever done before". Some may yawn at this, but Yamaha is not going in any different direction right now.

                          Integration with Cubase. Yeah, let's build hardware for a software company that's quite notorious for leaving hardware if it doesn't cash in fast enough. Keyword: "Houston" and "Midex". I haven't seen many improvements coming from the merger.

                          The "integration" is provided by "extensions for Cubase" which are simply a couple of predefined templates plus some plug-ins which basically 1) setup your audio/MIDI connections for the peer-to-peer FireWire interface and 2)allow to import songs in the XS format. (see this post) I wouldn't call this "Advanced Integration" in the first place, but what do I know... Remote control with sliders/knobs/buttons is based on the Mackie control protocol and is not limited to Cubase.

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                          • #58

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                            • #59
                              How many patches actually use more than four layers?
                              It's all in the Motif XS Data List 1. They don't list the the total number of Elements or layers per Voice but rather the number of "active Elements", i.e. oscillators ("hardware voices") used by each note.


                              Even if any particular Voice is using 8 Elements, it's not necessarily so that every note takes all 8 oscillators. In the AWM2 architecture, both samples (Waveforms) and Elements (oscillators) can be used to "layer" sounds (see this post for a detailed breakdown on a specific Mega Voice on the ES), though only Elements are used for "stacking" sounds. More than that, the Elements can now have what they call Xpanded Articulation control - which means Elements can be triggered by legato/staccato playing, grouped by the state of AF1/AF2 buttons or otherwise, or assigned to sound at key-off sound, and these kinds of Elements obviously do not take any additional oscillator.

                              For example, the Full Concert Grand uses 8 separate Elements - 4 for velocity layers of damped notes (up to G5), 3 for velocity layers of non-damped notes (G#5 and above) and 1 for key off sounds. So only one Element sounds at any given time for each note played. This Voice uses a stereo sample though, so it takes two hardware oscillators - so they list it as having 2 "active" Elements (osicllators, in reallity).


                              Funny how veryone else calls hardware oscillators "voices of polyphony", but Yamaha calls them "notes of polyphonsy" since they already have Voices (which everyone else calls programs or patches), and it's already confusing since it takes two "notes of polyphony" for each "real" note... And now they confuse even more since a Voice may have only one active Element (in a sense "Element of a Voice sounding for each note", but at the same time take two Elements (in a sence of hardware oscillators" or "voices of polyphony"), since it uses a stereo Waveform... very confusing.

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                              • #60
                                I placed my order for the XS7( will take about 2 weeks). This will be my first Motif

                                I am a noob on Motifator, I still need practice posting there. How about this:

                                " Roland/Korg sux, if you remove the FX, the sounds are thin and plasticky. Nobody buys that stuff. Motif RULES, Woof Woof '
                                <div class="signaturecontainer"><i><font color="Blue">I live a life of fearless self invention</font></i><br />
                                <br />
                                <i><font color="RoyalBlue">If you want to see God laugh, don't make any plans </font></i><br />
                                <br />
                                Good is the <i><font color="Sienna">Enemy</font></i> of <i><font color="Indigo">Great</font></i></div>

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