Members Anderton Posted April 12, 2015 Members Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ah yes, the Ensoniq TS-10 and ASR-10...Peavey DPM-3...E-Mu SP1200...Korg M1...they're still out there, and they (mostly) still work. But what happens when you need an "OS Disk" and the thing uses some proprietary format? With the DPM-3, the disks were all formatted as MS-DOS so I could save the data to CD-ROMs, and if needed, copy over to a USB floppy drive connected to my computer and then use the disk in the DPM. But some of the others...are there places on the web to get these precious disks? I did a google search to try to find the original set of sound disks for the SP-1200 and didn't have much luck. Things like custom LCDs are going to fail and who knows if they'll be available? I have a circa-1970s Minimoog that I've been able to keep current and restored, but what happens with the others... It would be a shame if all these great instruments ended up as doorstops. I guess the only option is to sample as much as possible before this stuff dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I still have my Ensoniq ESQ-1 from... 1987? It still works fine, and it looks like you can still get various parts for them, although I'm sure as time goes on they'll become harder to find and ever more expensive. As far as sounds, I think a lot has already been sampled, although you know how the quality can vary quite a bit when it comes to sampling and the skill of the person doing the job. I noticed that some of the sound vendors who still offer sounds for my ESQ1 only have them available on SQ80 or PC floppy disks, which kind of surprises me. I would imagine in this day and age, where more and more computers are being sold / built without such drives, it would make sense to offer them for sale as online downloads; that way, people could buy them, download them, and send them to their synth as a MIDI data dump... but I suppose the reason why they don't do it is concern over piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Karma1 Posted April 12, 2015 Members Share Posted April 12, 2015 I agree with Craig's statement: It would be a shame if all these great instruments ended up as doorstops." I know that a few of these are being offered in software versions or samples, but its not the same. I'm kind of old school with this and still get good use out of my Korg Wavestation SR, Roland JD-990, Kurzweil K2000R, and a few others. I'm dreading the time the time when they are no longer useable. I keep thinking I should start sampling them, but just haven't got around to it yet. Perhaps this is a good wake up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted April 21, 2015 The problem with sampling is how can you sample every facet of the synth...I have a Peavey DPM-3 and I can sample the raw ROM set (time-consuming, but doable) and use filters and such in a sampler to make the changes, but the DPM-3 had a unique way of doing transposition that gave a particular "sound." You can also sample complete patches, but if there's a long decay or something, that's complicated and sampling every note is a pain. I think the only option is modeling, but not everything is going to end up being modeled. At least with the Korg Wavestation, you have a couple good software options (Korg and Arturia). It may not be the same thing, but I always kicked myself for not getting a Wavestation when it came out and the modeled versions are close enough for me. Of course, whether the modeled versions survive the next operating system change for a Mac or Windows machine is another question altogether...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crazyfoo Posted April 21, 2015 Members Share Posted April 21, 2015 I remember playing an M1 when it came out, thinking how amazing it was, and for the time it really was, then I tried one a couple months ago, gawd, it was painful. I actually had the rack and gave it away to a friend..Thankfully synths have come a long way and im so far removed from that vintage sentimental bs of the past.I was stuck there for a while until reality kicked in.The stuff today kicks serious ass and can nearly reproduce everything from the past if not better, more stable and reliable. Having to take my OB-Xa to get the tuning fixed weekly was not a memory I was fond of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted April 21, 2015 Agreed on one level...a Kronos runs circles around an M1 any day. The problem for me is when I've developed an extensive set of patches around a synth. The patches still serve their musical purpose, and while I could probably re-create them on another synth, who knows whether I could come really close or not. So I guess it's not so much about losing the synths, but losing the sounds I could create with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 Sampling a digital synth is not the way to go. If you want to preserve it, you need to emulate it. Download the software from the EPROMs, and construct an environment for the software to run in. Something like how FM7 does DX7. A good engineer should be able to emulate something like the M1 with only 2-3 months of work, provided there is a decent amount of documentation out there and the code can be read out of the EPROMs easily (which should be true given the production dates). Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crazyfoo Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 One thing I sorely miss about the 80's synths is how easy they were to learn to create sounds.Fast forward to today, forget it, this guy can't create jack on the new stuff and I don't have a gazillion hours to read the operating manual nor the patience to figure it out.I think I could learn to speak Spanish much faster than learn how to program one of my late model workstations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 22, 2015 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think I could learn to speak Spanish much faster than learn how to program one of my late model workstations. Es la verdad, amigo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The problem with sampling is how can you sample every facet of the synth...I have a Peavey DPM-3 and I can sample the raw ROM set (time-consuming, but doable) and use filters and such in a sampler to make the changes, but the DPM-3 had a unique way of doing transposition that gave a particular "sound." You can also sample complete patches, but if there's a long decay or something, that's complicated and sampling every note is a pain. IMO sampling is really too limited to capture all the nuances of a good synth. I think the only option is modeling, but not everything is going to end up being modeled. At least with the Korg Wavestation, you have a couple good software options (Korg and Arturia). It may not be the same thing, but I always kicked myself for not getting a Wavestation when it came out and the modeled versions are close enough for me. Of course, whether the modeled versions survive the next operating system change for a Mac or Windows machine is another question altogether...! Exactly! I have a modeled Prophet that is pretty decent, but if it isn't updated to work with the latest OS or DAW, it becomes obsolete and unusable even faster than the hardware synth it was based on. On the other hand, I've been pretty darned impressed with some of the vintage synth based iPad apps like the Korg iPolySix, and even more modern synths like Cakewalk's Z3TA+. It's amazing what can be done with just an iPad and a few apps these days. Hopefully they'll continue to be supported far into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 Some 80s synths were, indeed, user-friendly. But some of them were DX-7s. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2015 Some 80s synths were, indeed, user-friendly. But some of them were DX-7s. Wes The DX7 is what started the whole "3rd party sounds cottage industry." Remember Bo Tomlin and his FM synth patches? When computer-based editors started to appear for these instruments, that was a game-changer. But then we had TWO layers of obsolescence - the hardware and the software. A recent example would be M-Audio's Venom. The editor was never updated after M-Audio was acquired and the parent company lost interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted April 24, 2015 Members Share Posted April 24, 2015 Digital just sucks in so many ways. SCSI storage/loading for my K2600, XV-5080 and EX5-R.Smart media for my S80 and CS6. Storage and memory media in general.Sold my Clavia G2 because the editor wasn't up dated. I've got 4 audio interfaces (not cheap),sitting, collecting dust - can't give them away. Planned obsolescence is a bitch.The list goes on and on. No wonder analog is making such a comeback now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 A recent example would be M-Audio's Venom. The editor was never updated after M-Audio was acquired and the parent company lost interest. There's a synth I felt had a lot of promise. It was kind of sad to see it get orphaned like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted April 25, 2015 Members Share Posted April 25, 2015 Enjoy them while we can and try to keep them working? This thread reminds me to see if my Mirage still works.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted April 25, 2015 Members Share Posted April 25, 2015 Sampling a digital synth is not the way to go. If you want to preserve it, you need to emulate it. Download the software from the EPROMs, and construct an environment for the software to run in. Something like how FM7 does DX7. A good engineer should be able to emulate something like the M1 with only 2-3 months of work, provided there is a decent amount of documentation out there and the code can be read out of the EPROMs easily (which should be true given the production dates). Wes This should be an available service. In fact Mfgrs should provide it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moogerfooger Posted May 6, 2015 Members Share Posted May 6, 2015 I have a protools 5.1 rig that runs on a 400MHZ power mac G4 with 2 888s, a core and 2 farms, and a DA 30 to mix to. thats vintage digital baby. actually i still use my EPS 16+ sampler from time to time for a low fi effect. and my M1 for that string sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 8, 2015 Author Members Share Posted May 8, 2015 I have a protools 5.1 rig that runs on a 400MHZ power mac G4 with 2 888s, a core and 2 farms, and a DA 30 to mix to. thats vintage digital baby. actually i still use my EPS 16+ sampler from time to time for a low fi effect. and my M1 for that string sound. If there was a prize for vintage digital, I would be the first to nominate you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordite Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 My DSS-1 still works (though the backlight has gone). There are kits to replace the drive with a solid state (usb or SD can't remember).Some of the floppies are crashing now and fresh dsdd disks to dupe to are getting hard to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted May 14, 2015 Members Share Posted May 14, 2015 There's a Kawai K5 available locally. I almost immediately jumped on it. I had a K5M for quite a while, and it was one of my favorites. Also later had three K5000's. When I got the module way back then, I really wanted the keyboard. I forget what happened, but I guess the module was there when the keys weren't. After letting it settle down for a bit though, I decided against it. Partly 'been there, done that', and partly having several softsynthsthat can 'sort of' do additive. They come close enough, but aren't really the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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